How much fat do I need to eat?

[not2late]

The fat/protein/carb percentages are based on the nutritional analysis of the Induction phase of Atkins Diet during the Duke University study done during Dr. Atkin's lifetime--on which Dr. Atkins was a consultant to the Duke researchers.

From my experience here on ADBB, there are 2 newbie problems with fat problems:

1. The folks who are so brainwashed that fat is bad, that they try to do a "low fat Atkins". Of course, this was something Dr. Atkins specifically warned against in the book. This sticky thread is meant to give those people comfort that they don't have to eat a pound of butter everyday.

2. The folks who fall into the "more is better" mentality and actually do try to eat a pound of butter daily. This sticky thread is meant to inform those people that they don't need to eat outrageous amounts of fat.

As for shooting for percentages, I agree it might be counterproductive, but then we have members here who will eat plain vegetable sticks as a snack---completely ignoring Dr. Atkins' rules to eat combinations of fats, proteins and carbohydrates with every meal. And I'm not even going to address the people who get it into their heads that eating anything with carbohydrates are bad, so they spend their Atkins loading up on chicken, beef, beef, chicken, pork, beef, and pork and not coming within 200 feet of a vegetable.

So for some people, it's best that they follow their fat, protein and carb percentages--in order for them to self-monitor.

Personally, I didn't monitor fat/protein/carb percentages or calories when I ws doing my Induction. I only monitored my carb intake.

[segamartinez]

Originally Posted by not2late

The fat/protein/carb percentages are based on the nutritional analysis of the Induction phase of Atkins Diet during the Duke University study done during Dr. Atkin's lifetime--on which Dr. Atkins was a consultant to the Duke researchers.

Are you talking about a particular study? I searched around (at my University's online library) and found:

Westman, Yancy, et. al. Effect of a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet program compared to a low-fat diet on fasting lipoprotein subclasses.
International Journal of Cardiology. May 2005.

Abstract

Background: Low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diets (LCKD) are effective for weight loss, but concerns remain regarding cardiovascular risk.
The purpose of this study was to determine the effect of an LCKD program on serum lipoprotein subclasses.

Methods: This was a randomized, two-arm clinical trial in an outpatient research clinic involving overweight, hyperlipidemic community
volunteers motivated to lose weight. Subjects were randomized to either an LCKD (n =59) and nutritional supplementation (including fish,
borage and flaxseed oil), or a low-fat, reduced-calorie diet (LFD, n =60). The main outcomes were fasting serum lipoprotein subclasses
determined by nuclear magnetic resonance analysis.

Results: The mean age of subjects was 44.9 years, the mean BMI was 34.4 kg/m2, and 76% were women. Comparing baseline to 6 months,
the LCKD group had significant changes in large VLDL (
78%), medium VLDL (
60%), small VLDL (
57%), LDL particle size (+2%),
large LDL (+54%), medium LDL (
42%), small LDL (
78%), HDL particle size (+5%), large HDL (+21%), and LDL particle
concentration (
11%). Compared with the LFD group, the LCKD group had greater reductions in medium VLDL ( p =0.01), small VLDL
( p =0.01) and medium LDL ( p =0.02), and greater increases in VLDL particle size ( p =0.01), large LDL ( p =0.004), and HDL particle size
( p =0.05).

Conclusions: The LCKD with nutritional supplementation led to beneficial changes in serum lipid subclasses during weight loss. While the
LCKD did not lower total LDL cholesterol, it did result in a shift from small, dense LDL to large, buoyant LDL, which could lower
cardiovascular disease risk.

Even if it's not the study, it's certainly interesting and shows the relative benefit to a low carbohydrate diet. Definitely will read the study.

Originally Posted by not2late

From my experience here on ADBB, there are 2 newbie problems with fat problems:

1. The folks who are so brainwashed that fat is bad, that they try to do a "low fat Atkins". Of course, this was something Dr. Atkins specifically warned against in the book. This sticky thread is meant to give those people comfort that they don't have to eat a pound of butter everyday.

2. The folks who fall into the "more is better" mentality and actually do try to eat a pound of butter daily. This sticky thread is meant to inform those people that they don't need to eat outrageous amounts of fat.

I hear the same thing when I talk about a low carb diet. The "1" group usually have little success on the low fat diet and attribute their failures to will power. Then they move over to Atkins because they hear their friends are doing it and losing weight. They "know" fat is "bad," so they do exactly what you said.

The other group I've seen, too. It's the mindset that the foods are almost magical whereas I believe it's the lack of carbohydrates (especially refined carbs and sugar) that make people healthier on the diet.

Originally Posted by not2late

As for shooting for percentages, I agree it might be counterproductive, but then we have members here who will eat plain vegetable sticks as a snack---completely ignoring Dr. Atkins' rules to eat combinations of fats, proteins and carbohydrates with every meal. And I'm not even going to address the people who get it into their heads that eating anything with carbohydrates are bad, so they spend their Atkins loading up on chicken, beef, beef, chicken, pork, beef, and pork and not coming within 200 feet of a vegetable.

I thought Atkins put it well with carbohydrates that when eating them you should look at the carb food from a nutrient to carbohydrate perspective so the carbohydrate foods you eat are generally naturally occuring, nutrient-dense foods.

Originally Posted by not2late

So for some people, it's best that they follow their fat, protein and carb percentages--in order for them to self-monitor.

Personally, I didn't monitor fat/protein/carb percentages or calories when I ws doing my Induction. I only monitored my carb intake.

Agree it looks like a good way to stick to what Atkins intended - although I don't think he believed we should worry about percentages - but if you follow that type of protocol it's a good way to monitor like you said.

I guess I'm just worried because people might start to think that you'll have to keep a scientific calculator on-hand to follow Atkins, when the real beauty of the diet is that it's relatively simple to follow.

[not2late]

That's the study. I first came across it when I was researching Atkins to see if it was a sound program for me to do. However, I found the study quoted on a low-fat site which used the percentages to prove Atkins was unhealthy.
Here's the full article: http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/full/140/10/769

Diet composition was measured on the basis of food records collected at each visit from a subsample of participants (13 from the low-carbohydrate diet group and 7 from the low-fat diet group.) The low-carbohydrate diet group consumed a mean (±SD) of 29.5 ± 11.1 g of carbohydrates (8% of daily energy intake), 97.9 ± 24.3 g of protein (26% of daily energy intake), and 110.6 ± 27.3 g of fat (68% of daily energy intake) daily. The low-fat diet group consumed 197.6 ± 34.2 g of carbohydrates (52% of daily energy intake), 70.5 ± 9.7 g of protein (19% of daily energy intake), and 48.9 ± 12.0 g of fat (29% of daily energy intake) daily. The estimated daily energy intake was 6.14 ± 1.37 MJ (1461.0 ± 325.7 kcal) in the low-carbohydrate diet group and 6.31 ± 0.68 MJ (1502.0 ± 162.1 kcal) in the low-fat diet group.

Again, we usually quote the percentages because some people need more guides than what Dr. Atkins wrote in the book. As I wrote in my prior post, if you really follow the rules as Dr. Atkins wrote them, you won't need to monitor macronutrient percentages or (heaven forbid) count calories. But some people need these extra guides for whatever reason.

I thought Atkins put it well with carbohydrates that when eating them you should look at the carb food from a nutrient to carbohydrate perspective so the carbohydrate foods you eat are generally naturally occuring, nutrient-dense foods.

Yes he does write that in his book, but as you can see by reading these stickies and even reading the posts in these forums, many people either haven't bothered to read the book or have read it and don't understand it. One of the posts today has been about lettuce. Not a terribly nutritious vegetable, but many people equate "salad" with all lettuce, all the time. Again, if they bother to take the time to read Chapter 8, they will see that Dr. Atkins wanted us to eat the "powerhouse" veggies.

It's early January right now, just wait for another 2 or 3 weeks and you'll see threads about why the mods and old-timers are soooo unhelpful and soooo rude because we keep telling people to read the book and read the stickies and read the FAQs. IMHO, I think we should only be supplementing information, but in reality some people want us to plan their menues, cook their food and iron their underwear.

I guess I'm just worried because people might start to think that you'll have to keep a scientific calculator on-hand to follow Atkins, when the real beauty of the diet is that it's relatively simple to follow.

Yes it is easy to follow provided you have read the book---the entire book, and have cleared your mind of any low fat propanganda. Unfortunately, many folks here have been on a plethora of diets, so it's hard for them "not" to count calories, "not" to eat fat, etc. I've already covered the reading the book part so I'm not going to again.

[soonbesexy]

This is the second time for me to try this diet. The last time i lost 25 lbs and 2 dress sizes. Now i gained it all back and some more. 2 days ago i am sitting on this very same spot and then my 3 year old daughter pinched my mid section and asked " what is that mommy" ? . I was speechless for a minute , I felt embarassed and scared. I did not get a good sleep that night, the next day i started myself on Atkins. I survived the first day and I am still working on the second day. My weight problem is not something i can openly discussed to my family, for me it's too personal. The weird thing is, since I don't know anyone of you (personally) i feel ok with this. i really hope that with support group like this,
I, too will be a success story.

[Elizellen]

Welcome to our ADBB family
I am sure you will soon be (and feel) sexy

[Moochiecat]

Agree it looks like a good way to stick to what Atkins intended - although I don't think he believed we should worry about percentages - but if you follow that type of protocol it's a good way to monitor like you said.

I guess I'm just worried because people might start to think that you'll have to keep a scientific calculator on-hand to follow Atkins, when the real beauty of the diet is that it's relatively simple to follow.

I wrote up a sticky to help people use www.fitday.com to check their percentages
http://www.atkinsdietbulletinboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5235
and I say in there that if you are following the plan as laid out in DANDR that everything should be where it needs to be. This is posted in the 14 Day Induction forum and I'm constantly passing the link out so that if people want to make sure they're on the right track, they can use it.

Atkins goes against a lot of what we've been brought up to think is 'healthy' and since we are told not to count calories, a lot of people feel like they're dangling in the wind not being able to confirm that they are doing the right thing.
That's where following the percentages comes in. As it says in the sticky, they don't have to be exactly bang on the precise numbers every single day.

Fitday is easy to use and since the pounds don't drop off all in one day, people can get that immediate reassurance when they see the numbers so that they know they are on the right track.

[barbarainholland]

Hi. Thanks for the info on fat. I did Atkins a couple of years ago, and then started reading other articles, got frightened (again) about too much fat, and quit Atkins. And ate whatever I craved, which was carbs, of course. Now, I am obese, not the person I want to be, and starting over. thanks for the support on the forum. Barbara in Holland

[artangel]

Thanks for the fitday info,
artangel