Is there a metabolic advantage for all or just some?

[TinaJSC]

I started using a link to Linda's low carb recipes (induction recipes) 2 days ago. They are so good. I am trying to stick to proper portion sizes. I feel great, (also feel heavier--scared to weigh), almost too good to be true.

Can some people, most people, or any people really eat more calories if they reduce carbs to the induction levels? It would really be encouraging right now to hear from some of you folks who have done well and maintained your fat losses to "weigh in" on this one. I really want to believe it is true and will be true for me.

I just started reading the 2002 DANDR, and I see that Dr. Atkins said that this was a very controversial point. A cursory internet surf reinforces this point even today. I found lots of folks on soapboxes about it and I wasn't even looking for an answer to the question at the time. Frankly, I don't want anyone to answer it if they haven't done low carb the Atkins way, so I didn't do any kind of google for this one.

I guess as the fat calories decrease when the carbs go up on OWL and maintenance, the overall calories decrease lots. I am enjoying induction so much and feeling so much better, I don't want to stop it!

Unfortunately, I live with my parents and my Mom says she cannot eat any more of my induction meals as she became bloated and uncomfortable after eating this way. I have noticed that she never seemed to have the problems with sleepiness and weight gain with high carbs that I did. I guess this WOE is not for her .

[liv]

Although there is some anecdotal evidence that people can eat loads of calories and still lose weight , I think for most people it would be hard to lose weight doing that. But you probably would not gain any either. We try to keep our calories up around what we need from day to day. Not to high, not too low.

My experience on OWL has NOT been that my overall calories has decreased a lot. I found that induction was very appetite restricting. OWL not that much and you have to better learn to control your own portions.

[Brook]

Originally Posted by TinaJSC

Can some people, most people, or any people really eat more calories if they reduce carbs to the induction levels? It would really be encouraging right now to hear from some of you folks who have done well and maintained your fat losses to "weigh in" on this one. I really want to believe it is true and will be true for me.

Yes. There is a metabolic advantage that allows an individual in ketosis to eat more calories than someone who isn't. Ketosis is a very in-efficient process and that's why- however, it's not a *lot* of calories. For me it translates into about 200-300 calories a day.

I just started reading the 2002 DANDR, and I see that Dr. Atkins said that this was a very controversial point. A cursory internet surf reinforces this point even today. I found lots of folks on soapboxes about it and I wasn't even looking for an answer to the question at the time. Frankly, I don't want anyone to answer it if they haven't done low carb the Atkins way, so I didn't do any kind of google for this one.

Well, I hope my almost 100lbs and 6 years on Atkins with 4 1/2 years of maintenance qualifies me

I guess as the fat calories decrease when the carbs go up on OWL and maintenance, the overall calories decrease lots. I am enjoying induction so much and feeling so much better, I don't want to stop it!

The overall calories do *not* decrease lots. They do decrease, but it's more than just OWL that does it.

When you're starting out on induction, you have fat to remove. All things but weight being equal- two people of the same height/body type/etc etc with one weighing 50lbs more than the other- are going to require different caloric intakes to fuel their bodies. As we decrease our size, we have to adjust our food/calorie intake accordingly. This is where a lot of people really trip themselves up, and I was one of them. I was stalled for 14 weeks- didn't change a darn thing, couldn't figure out for the life of me what was wrong. My numbers were dead on. My activity level was what it always was, as were my supplements, etc. Then it dawned on me. A 165lb woman does not require the same amount of food a 200lb woman does. I dropped the 2nd cheeseburger patty and lo-and-behold.

Now, that said, swapping out fat calories for increased carbs will reduce your calorie intake - but again, not much. Remember, a gram of fat has 9 calories and a gram of carb is 4 calories. When you up your carbs by those 5 grams, you're really only adding 20 calories. See what I mean? So you add 5 grams of fat, but you reduce your fat intake by a tablespoon of butter, for example, and you've just saved yourself 80 calories.

Am I being clear as mud?? LOL

Unfortunately, I live with my parents and my Mom says she cannot eat any more of my induction meals as she became bloated and uncomfortable after eating this way. I have noticed that she never seemed to have the problems with sleepiness and weight gain with high carbs that I did. I guess this WOE is not for her .

Induction may not be for her, but this WOE evolves into a WOE for everyone What's not for everyone in fresh, whole foods?!

[TinaJSC]

Wow! You look great... What an inspiration :~)

I also think that it is great that you didn't throw in the towel when you stalled for 14 weeks. I'm thinking that lots of people would quit and then tell others that it worked at first, then stopped working. I might have been one of them had I not had the benefit of comments like yours on this forum.

Thanks, Brooke. That helps lots. Congratulations on your fat loss!

Tina

[TinaJSC]

Oh yeah, I didn't mean to offend anyone with my comment about not wanting anyone to answer that had not successfully done Atkins program. It's just that since I began researching and following links on low-carb sites before I made the final decision to commit to Atkins, I stumbled upon lots of people, mostly professional trainers and nutritionists that were really ranting and raving about what a lie the metabolic advantage was, and about all the poor overweight people that wanted to believe the lie, etc... Many stated that there was absolutely no proof that it was true and lots of studies that proved that it was impossible. I do not think that any of them had actually done the program. One guy is in an ongoing, online battle of words and offering money to Dr. Eades if he will back up the statement with proof.

I really wasn't referring to people on this program doing the program. Heck, if you followed the program and lost weight on induction and maintained it, I consider you a success.

Again, thanks to all who responded to my question. It helps.

Tina

[Brook]

No need to explain, Tina We know what you meant and where you are coming from because we're right there with you!

It's been my experience over the last few years that the people who know the most about the Atkins WOE are the people that have never even so much as read the book, let alone followed the program.

[tacfla]

Brook, thanks for the info especially about your stall. I am going through the same thing as you described. I think because of your post I just had a " light bulb" moment. DUH I left in Jan due to a stall I just could not get out of, just did not feel like Atkins was working for me anymore. When you said " it dawned on you that 165 lb women doesnt need as much food as a 200 lb woman" It hit me I am there right now. Trying not to get discouraged and the last few days I have been eatting less and low and behold the scale is starting to move.

Thanks Tina for the question because even now after doing Atkins for a year and losing 45 lbs I still dont have all the answers and still have questions. I love this board.

Brook as usuall your awesome, love the pictures.

Robin

[ValidRouge]

I, too, have lost almost 100 lbs and have been maintaining for a year now. This is my experience, if I keep carbs low I can have more calories. If I raise my carb limit, I have to limit calories. And, as I increase carbs I want more calories as the higher carbs stirs up the desire for more, more, more. So, keeping carbs low and calories higher keeps my sanity.

My maintenance hasn't been all fun and games, but I am NOT throwing in the towel. No how, no way! Atkins is the best program for me.

Now, I'm a fairly large woman (compared to other women) at 5'10 and 184 lbs (today). I've been as low as 174 lbs and while I *LOVED* the way I looked then, I'm not sure that I'm willing to do what I was doing to get there. (Limiting calories to about 1700/day and exercising like a fiend). I'm a size 12 at 185 lbs. That is larger than some males. Anyway, these days I eat about 2000 calories a day and attempt to keep my protein under 30% and fat high around 60-65% and carbs 5-10%. I only eat vegetable and egg carbohydrates. Not what most people anticipate for maintenance and certainly not what I anticipated. Yet, I was just re-reading the lifetime maintenance chapter this morning, and when Dr. Atkins was describing lifetime maintenance eating, he described exactly what I eat. So, I guess I'm not that far off the mark.

[not2late]

Ditto to what Brook says. There was a study a couple of years ago showing a low carb diet did have a metabolic advantage, but as Brook stated it's a couple hundred calories more.

[TinaJSC]

Sounds good to me (200-300 cals)!

It only takes a precious few carbs above induction level for me to feel those old familiar cravings come back. I think I might wind up keeping my carbs quite low for life, like Joy said. However, I don't know if I would be completely happy only having eggs and vegs. as carbs. I am kind of missing fruit. Funny though that I don't miss breads hardly at all. Pastries and cakes were my weakness.

I am a believer in what people say on this forum about staying away from the Atkins bars early on. I might never be able to eat them. I ate part of an Atkins Double Chocolate Crunch bar yesterday and my blood sugar bottomed out completely. I felt it as soon as it happened, which was about 60-65% of the way through it. It is a shame that there aren't many products that you can easily buy for that occasional moment when you just feel like only a "candy bar" will do, that don't affect blood sugars for more people. I am not diabetic, but I am insulin resistant and I feel that this WOE is saving my life. I don't seem to have a problem with Stevia, and so far, at least in my lemonade, I like the taste. Splenda tastes kind of nasty to me. I do seem to physically tolerate it, though. I don't think any of it is very good for you, except maybe the stevia and the jury might still be out on that.

On Linda's recipe site, she had what I thought might be a good idea for some people with the Atkins bars. She says she chopped them up into about 20 pieces and put them in a bowl in the refrigerator and just took 2-3 nibbles every now and then to satisfy her and keep her from grabbing something that she shouldn't have.

Thanks again all, for the wonderful input. This forum is priceless!

Tina