No vegetables???

[San Fernando Valley]

Hi,

I've been reading recently about ketogenic diets and I am 4 days into a virtually 0-carb diet.

I know the Atkins diet calls for having no more than 20g carbs with at least half coming from non-starch vegetables, but I wonder if anybody has found success with eating little or no vegetables?

I stick to fish, poulty, and beef and I supplement my diet with a multivitimin.

Will the induction phase still work without eating vegetables, or are vegetables necessary for ketosis to occur?

[Georgiana]

I know the Atkins diet calls for having no more than 20g carbs with at least half coming from non-starch vegetables, but I wonder if anybody has found success with eating little or no vegetables?

That is only the Induction phase, not the whole diet. After the first two weeks you can move to OWL, add back more veggies, diary, nuts, berries, etc. and increase your carbs above 20 g.

Will the induction phase still work without eating vegetables, or are vegetables necessary for ketosis to occur?

You will get into ketosis as long as you keep your fats up and carbs down. But as you know, the 2002 Atkins (the one we go by at ADBB) Induction phase requires 3 cups of vegetables. So the advice you get here might not apply to your diet since we are eating veggies.

Many people discover that their weight loss slows down or stalls if they don't eat enough nutritious veggies. At least you are taking a multivitamin... Take a fiber supplement too, or your "pipes" might get clogged. Did you see your doctor before starting your 0-carb diet?

So why aren't you eating veggies? And what are you eating? What are your typical menus?

[San Fernando Valley]

Thank you for the response!

The primary reason I have decided to adopt a 0 carb diet is I live on a very limited budget. I figure I can use the same cheap fast food that got me fat to help me lose weight. For example, I eat two 99 cent McDonalds double cheese burgers as meal-- eating only the patties, of course.

The cost of most vegetables and the preparation involved are quite cumbersome for me, and I am wondering if cutting it out, despite the recommendation of 2002 Atkins, would accomplish the same result as an induction without vegetables. It seems as if the reason Dr. Atkins recommends vegetables is because of the nutrients and fiber they provide, but I wonder if its absence can be counteracted with a multi-vitimin and some psyllium. Is anybody here successful without getting their veggies?

Today I ate: a large filet of salmon, chicken breast, chicken wing, and some pork rinds, throughout the course of the day.

Other meal options include: burger patties, bacon, ham, tilapia, eggs, and milk.

If I had health insurance, I would ask my doctor about my diet, but unfortunately I don't

If the Atkins diet works and it's slowly beginning to be proven safe in the long run by scientific studies, I don't see why a modified version with less veggies won't work.

[Georgiana]

Originally Posted by San Fernando Valley

The primary reason I have decided to adopt a 0 carb diet is I live on a very limited budget. I figure I can use the same cheap fast food that got me fat to help me lose weight. For example, I eat two 99 cent McDonalds double cheese burgers as meal-- eating only the patties, of course.

You can make your diet cheaper if you cook at home rather than eat McDonalds. And with the money you save, you could buy veggies.

For example, if you buy chicken drumsticks (in bulk) and cook them, it's cheaper than eating burgers. A McDonalds patty has 90 calories, so two double cheeseburgers have 360 calories and you pay $2 for them. In 3 cooked drumsticks you have about the same number of calories and, bought in bulk, they are less than $2 (at least they were last summer in Baltimore).

Another advantage you have is ketosis. Appetite suppression is one of the physical signs of ketosis, so you will be eating less then you were before. This will further save some money.

Make a shopping list with what you need and plan your meals. Don't simply pick random foods from the acceptable foods list "just because" --- think what you will cook in the next days/week and shop accordingly. Don't go shopping when you're hungry or thirsty (take some water with you). Buy ingredients in bulk, compare unit prices, buy generic brands whenever available and buy produce that's in season or on sale. Frozen veggies are perfectly fine and often cheaper. If you have a farmer's market around you, use it; most veggies there are cheaper than in grocery stores.

Cooking will really help you spend less. It might be a big change from eating at McDonalds, but it's really worth it both for your health and for your weight loss. And if you do it wisely, you'll save some money too.

Today I ate: a large filet of salmon, chicken breast, chicken wing, and some pork rinds, throughout the course of the day.

Other meal options include: burger patties, bacon, ham, tilapia, eggs, and milk.

I don't know if milk is allowed in your diet, but on Atkins it is only allowed from OWL Rung 2 on. It has 5-6 carbs in 4 oz.

If the Atkins diet works and it's slowly beginning to be proven safe in the long run by scientific studies, I don't see why a modified version with less veggies won't work.

Because the whole works, it does not necessarily mean the parts taken alone will work. We all know cars are (normally) safe; but try driving your car with only three tyres, and you will damage the fourth wheel or even lose control and crash. You don't want to risk this, so it's advisable to have all the four tyres on. Same with Atkins. It's safe when you do it correctly, but modifying it "by the ear" and skipping this and that might damage your health or crash your diet all-together.

Multivitamins are just supplements. That is, they supplement your diet, not replace the vitamins and minerals you should be getting from veggies. Meat has some vits and minerals, but you'll be missing out on others. Being deficient in certain vitamins and minerals can impair our body's ability to convert food into energy (rather than fat) and to produce the hormones needed to mobilize body fat. This means your weight loss might come to a halt and/or you will be unhealthy.

I hope others will also give you some tips on how they save money on groceries. Atkins can definitely be done correctly even on a very low budget.

[JulieB]

I agree with Georgiana - certainly frozen veggies can be found on sale and fresh produce is resonable in season. Many people find that they lose better on OWL Rung 1 (more veggies) than induction...the body needs the nutrients you get from veggies - supplements are not absorbed as easily by the body as nutrients from real food.

Yes, it is more work to prepare real fresh food than to drive-thru. But it is healthier too Boiling or nuking frozen veggies really only takes a few minutes, preparing a fancy salad takes more time.

[liv]

Eat your vegetables

[theyab]

Originally Posted by San Fernando Valley

Today I ate: a large filet of salmon, chicken breast, chicken wing, and some pork rinds, throughout the course of the day.

Other meal options include: burger patties, bacon, ham, tilapia, eggs, and milk.

Even though you're technically sticking to a low carb, high protein & fat diet, it's really not good for you to eat so much protein. And yes, I believe it could even get in the way of your weight loss. Since excess protein isn't usually excreted from your body (unless in the case of malfunctioning kidneys) AFAIK it's simply converted to glucose (or glycogen?) and stored that way. To be honest, I'm not sure where I've read that, it could either be from a biology textbook or the Dr Atkins 2002 book (one of the later chapters, sorry I don't have the book to hand!).

Can anyone shed some light on this?

[NoDakMama]

I understand your need to keep your food budget low. Since I have adopted this way of eating, though, my food budget has gone down a considerable amount. I attribute this to the fact that, as Georgiana points out, my appetite has diminished and that I buy meats in bulk and veggies by the week. A head of iceberg lettuce, at $1.69 where I live, will last me several days because I supplement my salads with a cup of spinach (which I buy in a big bag - doesn't tend to go bad for a long time) or other veggie on the allowed list. I shop the sales - I have three major chains of grocery stores in my area and I stock up on the sale items, especially meats. Be careful at those restaurants - I discovered that sometimes they add no-no ingredients in the patties (for example, stay away from the Angus patties at McD's - they have nasties like sugar, molasses, corn syrup, etc).

[FwL]

If you're going to maintain zero carb, you'd probably find better support on one of the various zero carb sites that can be found on the net. Around here, you'll find that most are pretty hard-line, Atkins-by-the-book-only types.

Personally, I think there is validity to zero carb and also a lot of knee jerk concerning lack of vegetables.... no different than the knee jerk that happens with the mainstream regarding low carb and especially Atkins. Your best bet is to do some actual research into the way of eating rather than relying on advice on a message board.

I do think that your motivation and methodology seem suspect, however.

[stacy3477]

I'm in agreement with the previous posters. I'm also one of the those who has found that I lose faster when I get my appropriate veggies. If you decide to go the true DANDR route, please post again for low-budget recipes...we all have lots of suggestions! Good luck in whatever you decide!