I had a nightmare that I ate a bite of a cookie. Curiously, would one bite stall me?

[liv]

Good points guys. For me a bit of something really depends what that something is. I have learned enough about my eating now to know that there is certain items that I can not bite into or I will eat the whole package and all the packages in my neighbourhood.

And Mattkins You are argoing with me? Are you telling me that 50 sudden carbs will not have this effect on me

don't know about that. It would knock me out of ketosis for 1 day max. It's not really that big of a deal.... IF you can keep it to one cookie and it doesn't start a binge, or a series of cheats, etc.

I have done this for almost two years. I know perfectly well that this is the effect it will have on me. And I know how many days it will take for me to get back into ketosis. Been there done that.

[mattkins]

Yes moderator with your 6,500 posts and all you're "Good little Atkins'er" badges, I AM arguing with you. I thought this was a forum where everyone could contribute, and other opinions besides yours were accepted? No?? I stand by what I said because my contribution is HELPFUL to the original poster. Regardless of whether you take offense or not. 50 grams will NOT throw you out of ketosis for 7 days. That's ridiculous.

[Georgiana]

Originally Posted by mattkins

Yes moderator with your 6,500 posts and all you're "Good little Atkins'er" badges, I AM arguing with you. I thought this was a forum where everyone could contribute, and other opinions besides yours were accepted? No?? I stand by what I said because my contribution is HELPFUL to the original poster. Regardless of whether you take offense or not. 50 grams will NOT throw you out of ketosis for 7 days. That's ridiculous.

This is not about a member's number of posts or about his/her position, Mattkins. Liv was sharing the effect that eating 50 net carbs would have on her, not on you, me or anyone else. You cannot know whether 50 net carbs will throw her out of ketosis for 7 days. You might think most people will be able to get back in ketosis in less than 7 days. That is probably correct and Dr. Atkins does tell us in DANDR that usually it takes 2-3 days to completely switch from glucosis to lipolysis. But we are not all the same and some people are more metabolically resistant than others. Those people, like Liv, will need more time to get into ketosis. This is an excerpt from DANDR 2002, Ch. 13, p. 158:

As I'm sure you've guessed, the degree of resistance to weight loss that your body shows corresponds to your degree of difficulty in getting well into lipolysis. By definition, resistance to weight loss is resistance to lipolysis.

As you can see, if someone is metabolically resistant, he/she is resistant to getting into ketosis.

Let's keep this thread friendly.

[mitzimarie]

Originally Posted by Georgiana

This is not about a member's number of posts or about his/her position, Mattkins. Liv was sharing the effect that eating 50 net carbs would have on her, not on you, me or anyone else. You cannot know whether 50 net carbs will throw her out of ketosis for 7 days. You might think most people will be able to get back in ketosis in less than 7 days. That is probably correct and Dr. Atkins does tell us in DANDR that usually it takes 2-3 days to completely switch from glucosis to lipolysis. But we are not all the same and some people are more metabolically resistant than others. Those people, like Liv, will need more time to get into ketosis. This is an excerpt from DANDR 2002, Ch. 13, p. 158:
As you can see, if someone is metabolically resistant, he/she is resistant to getting into ketosis.

Let's keep this thread friendly.

I couldn't agree more... each one of us is different. It takes me at least 4 days to get back into ketosis.

And to the OP - again, we are all different. But I can tell you this about myself: ONE BITE can be the kiss of death for me... it starts a chain reaction that I have a very hard time turning around (been there, done that).

[pinkfeathers]

Hm... I'm glad I posted this question. And I appreciate the different views and such. For me, it takes 5 days to get into Ketosis. So, I guess what everyone is saying is that when OUT of ketosis, it takes the same time to get back INTO ketosis no matter how many carbs I went over, yes??

[Georgiana]

Originally Posted by pinkfeathers

Hm... I'm glad I posted this question. And I appreciate the different views and such. For me, it takes 5 days to get into Ketosis. So, I guess what everyone is saying is that when OUT of ketosis, it takes the same time to get back INTO ketosis no matter how many carbs I went over, yes??

Not exactly. Ketosis is a tricky thing. Even in Maintenance, when you are out of "permanent" ketosis, lipolysis will still be necessary to burn that fat you are eating (~50% of your calories and even more for some). As long as you are eating less than about 100 g of carbohydrate, your diet is considered to be ketogenic.

The amount of carbs you eat and the number of days you've been in glucosis do play a role in determining how long it will take you to get back in ketosis. As long as your body has enough glucose/glycogen to maintain glucosis, that's what it will do. And your body has the more glucose/glycogen the more carbs you eat. Eating too many carbs (whatever that means for your metabolism) for a period of a few days will likely make it more difficult to get back into ketosis, because your body has stored more glycogen that it can use in glucosis.

Also, as I believe I mentioned in one of my previous replies here, cheating will lead to yo-yo dieting and increased resistance to weight loss.

From DANDR, Ch. 17, p. 224:

When you do Atkins during the week and cheat on weekends, for several days after your binge, you are no longer burning fat. At most, you could be in the fat-burning state for only three days each week. In addition, you may have overstimulated your insulin response, increasing the metabolic risk factors underlying your weight problem. Remember that when you burn fat, dietary fat is also being burned. However, if you combine high carbs with high fat---typical American diet---you can be increasing your cardiovascular risks.

The definition of a carb binge is pretty loose. You might not consider 50 net carbs a binge. There are Atkineers who can lose weight and be in ketosis even when eating 100+ carbs. Their bodies could deal just fine with 50 net carbs. Then there are those Atkineers who need to stay at 15-25 net carbs to lose. For them, 50 net carbs will be 2-3 times more than what they are supposed to eat in order to lose or even maintain.

This is why OWL is important. Once you move to OWL and find your CCLL, you will know how many carbs you can tolerate and what foods you can eat so that you keep losing weight when eating only enough to satisfy your hunger. If you stay on Induction, you can only speculate what your reaction to X carbs or whatever food will be, based on other people's experiences. Only by coincidence will this apply to your body.

[jimmie 48]

pinkfeathers, for me the whole thing isn't so much of getting back into ketosis or the time frame of it but, like mitzi says, eating something so completely off plan, is the "kiss of death". after eating or drinking something on the 'shouldn't' list, it's very hard to stop. a starbucks leads to wanting a fudge nut sundae which leads to wanting ______ .
like mitzi also said...... been there, done that.

[pinkfeathers]

Georgiana,

Your post is marvelous. Thank you for that! Got much info from it!!

Originally Posted by Georgiana

Not exactly. Ketosis is a tricky thing. Even in Maintenance, when you are out of "permanent" ketosis, lipolysis will still be necessary to burn that fat you are eating (~50% of your calories and even more for some). As long as you are eating less than about 100 g of carbohydrate, your diet is considered to be ketogenic.

The amount of carbs you eat and the number of days you've been in glucosis do play a role in determining how long it will take you to get back in ketosis. As long as your body has enough glucose/glycogen to maintain glucosis, that's what it will do. And your body has the more glucose/glycogen the more carbs you eat. Eating too many carbs (whatever that means for your metabolism) for a period of a few days will likely make it more difficult to get back into ketosis, because your body has stored more glycogen that it can use in glucosis.

Also, as I believe I mentioned in one of my previous replies here, cheating will lead to yo-yo dieting and increased resistance to weight loss.

From DANDR, Ch. 17, p. 224:
The definition of a carb binge is pretty loose. You might not consider 50 net carbs a binge. There are Atkineers who can lose weight and be in ketosis even when eating 100+ carbs. Their bodies could deal just fine with 50 net carbs. Then there are those Atkineers who need to stay at 15-25 net carbs to lose. For them, 50 net carbs will be 2-3 times more than what they are supposed to eat in order to lose or even maintain.

This is why OWL is important. Once you move to OWL and find your CCLL, you will know how many carbs you can tolerate and what foods you can eat so that you keep losing weight when eating only enough to satisfy your hunger. If you stay on Induction, you can only speculate what your reaction to X carbs or whatever food will be, based on other people's experiences. Only by coincidence will this apply to your body.

[mattkins]

I fully understand everyBODY is different, but NOBODY, no human being will take SEVEN DAYS to get back into ketosis from a 50 carb cookie. Even if it's all white flour and sugar. ....no offense but you guys are misunderstanding the science if you think that's how it works. Even if it was a 1000 gram carb binge you did one day, if you dropped back to 20grams a day induction style eating the next day, you'd be back in ketosis in 2-4 days at the absolute MOST. Not a week. Because your body does NOT have to burn off those 1000 carbs you ate. It can only store so much as glycogen in your liver and skeletal muscle. The rest gets stored as fat. It's flat out incorrect to tell someone that depending on your metabolism you may be feeling a 50 gram cookie SEVEN DAYS later. That's just not true. ....and you don't have to be turning the pee sticks purple to be in ketosis. You're pretty deep in if they are changing color.

I understand the intent, to keep the new person on track and discourage cheating. But scare tactics based on a faulty understanding of the science is not the best way to do that. I agree with the spirit of what everyone is saying. That while one cookie is not a big deal physically, MENTALLY it may be a slippery slope that starts a binge. Only you know whether you can have one and then get back on track. Personally I wouldn't risk it.

[liv]

I was not saying it as a deterrent I WAS just talking about me Mattkins. I did come out of low carbing just recently and then try to get back to ketosis and it took seven days which is normal for me. So it was a very personal answer based on my recent hmmm ... "experiment" . You may be right that if it had been one cookie of 50 gram of carb I may have been back to normal sooner so guess I could have been clearer in that answer but I can only stay in ketosis on a very low carb number and my CCLL is about 35. Sorry if I offended you in any way. Did not intend to.
Thanks for all the explanations guys. Good thread.