Please Advise: Mainly Fat Vs Mainly Protein

[genekh]

Hi everyone,

i really want to understand in detail how my body works on atkins - this will help me finetune my diet - believe me I am very determined and never break a regime.

I am a male, 30y.O., 181cm (5'11") tall, currently 91kg (200lbs)

if anyone can please answer questions below I will be very grateful.

Here are some questions based on observations over 2 months:

1) is there anything wrong with the reasoning/regimes below?
2) any suggestions?
3) what's the correct explanation of the facts below?

Notes:
------

a) have been doing atkins 3 years ago - was losing very quickly.
B) I gained a lot after I stopped smoking 8 months ago.
C) weight loss now is not apparent
d) all readings were taken with tanita innerscan body composition monitor (see below for available data).
E) thoughout the course of this experiment all necessary vitamins and fiber (with probiotics) have been religiously taken.
F) pure water intake has been 3+ litres per day.
G) intensive exercise 5 days a week in the morning

month 1
-------
i have been following a virtually carb-free (<7-10g of any carbs) diet of ca. 1800kcal a day for a month from 9 jan to 8 feb.
The foods have been chosen in such a way that the amount of fat (in gramms) in the diet was equal or exceeded the amount of proteins (in grams).

Findings:
---------
a) ketostix indicated a very high rate of ketosis
b) overall weight loss was insignificant - about 1kg (2.2lbs)
c) fat/muscle redistribution was significant (loss of 4kg (9lbs) of fat, gain 3kg (6.5lbs) of muscle)

at the end of the period any changes to the body composition or body weight stopped - ketostix still indicated high rate of ketosis.

My reasoning was as follows: I am burning the fat I consume instead of fat stored in my body (still showing ketones), so I should switch to protein only diet to maintain muscle mass and burn stored fat for energy.
Here is what I did in month 2.


Month 2
-------
again I have been following a virtually carb-free (<7-10g of any carbs) diet of ca. 1800kcal a day for a month from 9 feb up until now.
This time a typical day's foods would be:
breakfast: 3 fried eggs, beef burger
lunch: 2 lambchops
dinner: 1 porkchop or 1 chicken leg
late snack: 70g of salami

findings: see detailed data below
---------
a) ketostix show no or little ketosis (could be due to all ketones released from stored fat being washed out of the body with the water intake)
b) no fat loss, any fluctuations in weight due to muscle mass changes (regained over the weekend when little or no exercise)
c) perceived fitness is better (i.E. I look more muscular - subjectively)

am I doing something wrong or just reached a plateau - if so what should I do differently. What's wrong with the reasoning above?

0 - date
1 - body mass (kg)
2 - muscle mass (kg)
3 - bone mass (kg)
4 - fat mass (kg)
5 - body fat (%)
6 - body water (%)
7 - visceral fat rating (1-45 the less the better)
8 - physique rating (1-10 the more the sportier)
9 - metabolic age
10 - basal metabolism rating (kcal)

___0_____1____2__3___4___5_____6___7_8_9__ 10
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------
09-feb-07 92.6 69.6 3.6 19.4 21.0% 56.0% 7 2 34 2,162
11-feb-07 92.7 69.5 3.7 19.5 21.0% 55.0% 7 3 34 2,169
12-feb-07 93.3 71.6 3.6 18.1 19.4% 58.0% 6 4 31 2,212
13-feb-07 92.2 70.9 3.6 17.7 19.2% 58.0% 5 5 29 2,220
14-feb-07 91.1 68.2 3.6 19.3 21.2% 54.0% 7 2 36 2,113
15-feb-07 91.6 69.2 3.6 18.8 20.5% 54.7% 6 2 33 2,150
16-feb-07 91.3 70.1 3.6 17.6 19.3% 55.8% 6 5 29 2,175
17-feb-07
18-feb-07
19-feb-07 91.2 69.4 3.6 18.2 20.0% 55.2% 6 2 31 2,154
20-feb-07 91.3 69.9 3.6 17.8 19.5% 55.6% 6 5 30 2,170
21-feb-07 92.0 70.5 3.7 17.8 19.4% 55.7% 6 6 29 2,189
22-feb-07 92.4 70.5 3.7 18.2 19.7% 55.6% 6 6 30 2,191
23-feb-07 92.9 71.1 3.6 18.2 19.6% 55.6% 6 6 30 2,208
24-feb-07 92.9 71.9 3.7 17.3 18.6% 56.5% 6 6 27 2,232
25-feb-07
26-feb-07 91.7 69.9 3.6 18.2 19.8% 55.4% 6 5 31 2,170
27-feb-07 90.6 69.1 3.6 17.9 19.8% 55.3% 6 5 31 2,143
28-feb-07 89.9 68.4 3.6 17.9 19.9% 55.0% 6 5 31 2,123
01-mar-07 90.4 69.0 3.6 17.8 19.7% 55.4% 6 5 31 2,141

[staziaw]

Um, veggies? Where are the veggies? Please eat your veggies! Remember that veggies are GOOD carbs - good for fiber, vitamins, minerals and general yumminess.

Add 20 grams of veggies per day, as outlined in Dr. Atkins' book.

Your ratios should be higher in fat than protein. As your carb level increases, it will be the fat percentage that will decrease. I believe the magic number for protein is 30? Someone will be around to correct me, I'm sure.

Please!!

I hope this helps you.

Stacy

[LuckyD]

I agree you need to add vegetables. Its essential to your health and success on this WOE. Also you may even need to up your calorie intake. For all the exersize you do your body might be resistant to let go of any more fat. I think you can make up the calories by just adding salads and veggies to your diet. Sometimes its takes longer than we think it might take to lose the pounds we want. Its hard to get a grasp on that when most people seem to have miraculous weight loss during induction. For others they dont see the loss until the move onto OWL. Be sure you move up your rungs. It will be much more enjoyable and easier to stay on this WOE when you have more options to choose from.

[Lyssie]

High protein diets are not healthy for you, they are what gave Atkins the bad rep of killing people. Eating virtually no carbs is not healthy for you and does not help you lose weight. It doesn't matter how many vitamins you take to try and make up for it, it's not the same. Nothing is better than getting nutrients from your foods. I personally think that you should read the book and follow what Dr. Atkins outlined to do since really nothing can compare in terms of results to that.

Now for the rest. I am assuming that your percentages would be like, 55/45 for fat vs. protein in the first month or something close to that. Your percentages should be 65/30/5. This is a high fat diet, not a high protein diet. The reasoning behind is that your body learns how to process fat better by living off of it. So if you eat more fat, it has to work to burn that fat, and then it knows how to work less hard to burn the fat on your body. I hope this makes sense as a very brief explanation. If you're not eating enough fat to teach your body this, it won't work the same for burning it off of you. This is all written in the book and I think that $6 or whatever would be a good investment for you if you're looking to truly understand this.

I would also ask what you qualify as "intensive exercise"? Is it cardio? Weights? A combination of the two? Is it 10 minutes of intensive exercise? 2 hours?

The ketostix would have given you a higher reading since your fat was higher... the higher your fat intake is, the higher your fat outtake is.

I don't know what else to tell you, you're basically doing Atkins backwards, and I think that if you continue to eat like this you're going to hurt yourself.

[genekh]

Thanks everyone for the replies so far.

I actually do own the book, it's just that I read it quite a while ago and did it then successfully. I should have read it again this time. I will restart with the right ratios.

As for exercise:
I do 30mins weight machines + 30 mins swimming Mondays/Fridays
45 mins body pump Tuesdays/Thursdays
1h:15mins of ahtanga yoga on Wednesday

[julirama723]

I agree with Lyssie. If you have been eating NO carbs, what nutrients have you been getting? I am guessing that you are well on your way to being malnourished. Also your figures state that your BMR is around 2100 calories. You should be eating close to your BMR each day.

Please, read the book. I think you should check out the stickies and FAQs on the board while you're waiting. If you want to do Atkins, then do ATKINS. Do not do something hazardous and uninformed.

Atkins is NOT NOT NOT high protein. Atkins is high fat. Think of it this way. By following the Atkins plan, our bodies are burning fat for fuel. We need to eat fat in order for our bodies to run properly. It's like a car that needs gas. If your car needs fuel, do you give it oil? NO, you give it gas. Give your body what it needs to run.

By eating that much protein, you're surely left with an excess of it in your body. Excess protein turns to glucose, which ultimately turns to fat.

[Lyssie]

I do BodyPump Tuesdays and Thursdays!! but ours is an hour long class... It's really fun though!!

I don't think those are intense workouts though.

[ValidRouge]

Dr. Atkins points out in his book that excess protein will be turned into glucose (SUGAR) and stored as FAT. So, eating too high protein also defeats your purpose.

Please re-read your book, and follow the plan the way it was written and it will work. There are many many goalies here on this board (and I'm about to become one of them) who can tell you that if you follow the plan the way it was intended, you'll lose weight and be VERY healthy. I eat vegetables and dairy and fruit (ALL HEALTHY CARBOHYDRATES) and am very satisfied with my diet. I have added LOTS of healthy muscle mass without eating too much protein and have reduced my body fat significantly. My cholesterol, blood pressure, and blood glucose numbers are all outstanding and my doctor is happy.

If you are going to put the effort into this (and with your detail, you're putting LOTS of effort into it) then do it the right way so that it works.

[genekh]

Again, thanks everyone for advice and support.

Given, that I am going to do it right this time I am already planning next week's menu.
The thing is that I really have very little time for my meals - it's either supermarkets or takeaway.
Can anyone point me to some posts on this site or elsewhere with sample weekly menu's of around 2200kcal a day? But with simple foods one can easily buy in a supermarket ready to eat? (I also have a butcher's shop near work - they do cooked meat as well)

Again, I appreciate eveyone's help

(I live in London, supermarket nearest work is Tesco - for UK people on this board)

[Lyssie]

Tyson has pre-cooked chicken breasts/thighs/drumsticks, green giant has veggies that are nuke and go, that have butter sauce stuff with them (green beans, cauliflower, brussel sprouts, broccoli), sliced deli meats with some mayo & mustard blended together, I'm not really sure whether you mean you never eat at home or just always eat something quick? There are pre-cooked buffalo wings which can be either nuked or baked, with blue cheese... most of my food is things that are pre-made or I can make on the weekend and take and go...