Has anyone tried Atkins and Alli (Orlistat) together?

[Slidesdownmountains]

Originally Posted by Slapshot

How has your hunger been on that plan? I would be ravenously hungry without more fat than that, but alas, everyone's different.

Yeah - I thought I would be about ready to faint, but as it turns out I have been a 'pre-emptive eater', eating just in case I got hungry!!!

Originally Posted by Slapshot

Also, I'm not sure I understand some of your numbers: Lunch: "Tuna with teaspoon full-fat mayo, red peppers, red onions, cucumber, cherry toms - 373kcal, 14g fat, 12 net carbs"

There are about 11g of fat in a TABLEspoon of mayo, so there are about 3.5g of fat in a TEAspoon, so I'm not sure where the 14g of fat comes from.

My bad!! you're quite right - goign back to Sparks, it was a tablespoon (even better: more mayo!), and by the looks of it, my brand is pretty heavy with the fat! Also the tuna is listed as having 2 grams.

[Slapshot]

Ahh, got it. It doesn't sound as low-fat as I thought when I read your first post. It's probably better described as "lower-than-normal-Atkins-fat."

[Slidesdownmountains]

Originally Posted by Slapshot

Ahh, got it. It doesn't sound as low-fat as I thought when I read your first post. It's probably better described as "lower-than-normal-Atkins-fat."

Not as catchy, but I like it...!!

I think I average about 50g-60g a day of fat with none of the ill-effects thus far...(long may that continue!)

[imagood1]

Someone posted the other day about taking diet pills along with following Atkins... I don't understand why....I don't loose as quickly as others and had a couple times where I went a month without any weight loss. I understand it is frustrating but when the weight starts moving again it feels great.

As far as Alli -- I did the program when it first came out...if you gross out easily stop reading now:

the first couple days I felt ok - the 3rd day my stomach started feeling like it was filled with maple syrup (heavy and with a "rolling" feeling) I started feeling really sick. Stomach cramping started after that. I had to go to the grocery store and on the way home it happened. I am over 50 years old and lost control of my bowels. That happened for 3 days - several times a day. I called my doctor (since he thought it would be a good idea) and he told me to stop taking it.

During my fun time on "Alli" I lost a total of 2 pounds. Wow -- Probably from my bowels letting go. It took almost 2 weeks afterward until I started feeling better.

When I was sitting in the doctors office a few weeks ago I overheard a couple ladies talking about their experiences on "Alli".....funny, they had the same problems I had.

Personally, I wouldn't do it again for anything! Maybe the FDA has said it's a good thing but I seriously disagree with them. It you are serious, stick to Atkins - up your fitness routine, tweak your daily food intake and it will work for you too.

Remember, you ask for suggestions and critique -- that is what you will get when you ask for it. When you ask for us to celebrate your loss, your birthday, your goldfish giving birth we all will get behind you and do that also. You may think it seems harsh but we are a family and we all want what is best for each other. Harsh or not!

[Georgiana]

Originally Posted by Slidesdownmountains

I have realised that I was overeating fat, which is what I said (my calories were through the roof, too - 2500 or so, but as far as I recall we weren't supposed to be counting everything).

Counting is not necessary, but this does not mean calories are not important. Dr. Atkins repeats several times throughout DANDR 2002 that calories do matter and overeating will lead to a stall in weight loss or even to weight gain. As Dr. Atkins puts it, Atkins "does not give you a license to gorge". As long as you can make the difference between eating to satisfy your hunger and eating to stuff your belly just because a food is low in carbs, counting is not necessary. If you cannot make this difference, then you need to develop strategies to teach yourself healthy eating habits. Taking Alli is not one of them, imo.

So if the only thing I get from the Alli experience, is the knowledge that I will not get by hungry eating less, and I do not need to eat fats every time I get hungry, then I will of course lose weight, and be healthier in the process. Perhaps other posters may have fallen into this trap like me?

If you were overeating before, then eating less will not leave you hungry. So you can gain the same experience by just listening to your hunger, without taking Alli.

Yes, you may be losing fat because you are restricting calories. But read further...

I doubt very much that I would have lost water weight as I don't really retain it and drink over 10 glasses at least per day, and with regards to the vitamins concern, as with some of the other supplements recommended in Atkins, I take a multi-vit before bed, so that it can be absorbed. I was well-advised on these aspects from the pharmacist when I bought the 2-week pack, and so feel like I am making a somewhat well-informed choice. It's a medically tested drug, FDA approved, not Phen-Fen/Hydroxycut or anything!!

It's true that the side-effects have been well-documented and definitely stick in the mind more than the positive results. I can see why one of the listed side-effects may be 'anxiety'!

Did you check what diets the participants in these tests were following? Were they low carb, low fat diets? I can tell you they weren't. They were high carb, low fat diets. You cannot extrapolate the results and say Alli is safe (or at least, just as safe) to take on a low carb, low fat diet.

I do not have the page number but when I get home to my book , I will endeavour to find the information: it was an experiment regarding the usual 'recommended' high-carb, low-fat diet, a low carb, high fat diet and a low fat, low carb diet.

I believe the study you are talking about was comparing a high GL diet with a low GL one, but I'll wait for the page number.

Also, there's plenty of bad press about Atkins, too so I try to read both sides.

Press, yes. Research, not really.

This is how things often travel from the lab to the news:

I have previously been having good results with Atkins, but was disappointed to be stuck at a certain weight for over a month which has not happened before and I thought I was making a concerted effort to stick to plan (have moved on to OWL - Berries, fruits, just not updated profile). This could be down to several things: too much diet coke, building muscle with my exercise class, too much fat (though the amount I eat hasn't changed in recent months) etc etc.

Okay... so you were probably overeating fat, since only the other day you entered it in Sparkpeople. You were also drinking too much diet coke. And you've been doing Atkins on and off since New Year. Then why, instead of changing these bad dietary habits, do you prefer to take Alli? Dr. Atkins wanted us to change our eating habits and learn to eat nutritious, healthy, minimally processed foods, not to binge on fat, take Alli and wash it down with diet coke. It's just not Atkins, because Atkins is based on four principles---not only losing weight, but maintaining your goal, improving your health and preventing diseases. While you may lose weight, you will never learn how you need to eat to maintain goal, unless you plan on taking Alli forever, which I doubt.

Slapshot: my menu has been similar to below for the past 5 days (obviously not the same everyday)
Breakfast - 2 scrambled eggs with 1/2 tbsp cream, grated mushrooms, 20g grated cheddar cheese, sliced pork loin, and a cup of peppermint tea - 15g fat, 3 net carbs, 239kcal
Lunch: Tuna with teaspoon full-fat mayo, red peppers, red onions, cucumber, cherry toms - 373kcal, 14g fat, 12 net carbs
Snack: olives/silverkin mini pickled onions/celery sticks (sometimes with a little peanut butter - 4g fat)
Dinner: 150g lean sirloin steak rubbed with garlic and rosemary and pan griddled, 5 lg asparagus spears and a cup and a half of mixed salad leaves with a little olive oil and lemon juice - 16g fat, 7 carbs, 640kcals
Plus, tea and coffee with 2% milk, and around 10-12 glasses water, dependent on exercise, heat etc.

So your diet has about 1400 calories, with 55-60 g of fat... out of each 1/4 are blocked by Alli... so you have 1250-1300 calories left. This is probably less by a few hundred calories than your BMR. You should know that eating low calories & low carb will mess up your thyroid hormone levels (look for e.g. E. Danforth and A. Burger, Annu. Rev. Nutr., 1989, 9:201-27 if you're interested in a study).

Did you discuss your diet with your doctor? Does he agree with you taking Alli on a low carb, low fat, low calorie diet?

[Slidesdownmountains]

Originally Posted by imagood1

the first couple days I felt ok - the 3rd day my stomach started feeling like it was filled with maple syrup (heavy and with a "rolling" feeling) I started feeling really sick. Stomach cramping started after that. I had to go to the grocery store and on the way home it happened. I am over 50 years old and lost control of my bowels. That happened for 3 days - several times a day. I called my doctor (since he thought it would be a good idea) and he told me to stop taking it.

During my fun time on "Alli" I lost a total of 2 pounds. Wow -- Probably from my bowels letting go. It took almost 2 weeks afterward until I started feeling better.

When I was sitting in the doctors office a few weeks ago I overheard a couple ladies talking about their experiences on "Alli".....funny, they had the same problems I had.

Personally, I wouldn't do it again for anything! Maybe the FDA has said it's a good thing but I seriously disagree with them. It you are serious, stick to Atkins - up your fitness routine, tweak your daily food intake and it will work for you too.

OMG!! I'm so sorry you had such a bad experience - that's awful, nightmarish cold sweat stuff (and is what is currently keeping me away from fatty foods)!!! Did you go straight from Atkins into it?? What made you try it?

So far I feel good, and I'm not hungry, dizzy, moody or I would stop,. believe you me!
I don't personally think I need (or could!) to do any more in the way of fitness 5x hrs of pole fitness a week (at 400 cals an hour) plus 3.6 miles of walking each day, and an 11-hour work/travel day doesn't even leave me with the time to do it!
As I say, I completely love Atkins WOE and have followed this for the majority of the time over the last 5 years (with several slips along the way), but I was frustrated that nothing was happening, and then shocked at my fat and caloric intake! I don't remember if there's an upper limit on fat grams in DANDR but I'm sure that 165g is high by anyones standards! The shame!!!

Thanks for your feedback!!

[not2late]

as others have stated Atkins is a high fat-low carb diet. Fat is necessary because it's the ratio of fat to carbohydrate that gets us into the ketogenic process.

Taking Alli really defeats the purpose of eating a high fat diet. As you wrote, it prevents the absorption of 25% of the fat you ingest. So if you ingest 50 grams of fat daily, then 10 grams do not get absorbed. 10 grams is equivalent to the amount of fat in about 12 ml of olive oil. So you could get the same results from eliminating 1 tablespoon of added fat from your diet as you would taking the Alli pills.

Also, when you move to OWL Phase and begin added carbs, your fat intake (the percentage of fat in your daily menu) naturally decreases provided you keep your fat intake constant. The mistake many people make during Atkins is that they add more fat to their diets as they add more carbohydrate. And they stop losing weight.

[Georgiana]

Originally Posted by Slidesdownmountains

I don't remember if there's an upper limit on fat grams in DANDR but I'm sure that 165g is high by anyones standards! The shame!!!

No, there is no limit on fat. Dr. Atkins told us to eat when hungry or when 6 hours have passed since our last meal. He also told us to stop eating when satisfied, not full, stuffed or sick from overeating. During Induction, the percentages one should aim for are 65% fat, 5% carbs and 30% protein. The protein stays the same throughout the diet, but the percentage of fat decreases to leave room for more carbohydrates. However, Atkins remains a high fat diet, with the majority of the total calories coming from fat. So while there is no limit on the amount of fat or protein we are allowed to eat, we are not supposed to binge on them. And we should not overeat protein either, because part of the excess protein will be converted to sugars, which can kick us out of ketosis, trigger cravings, cause stalls or even weight gain.

[Slapshot]

However, Atkins remains a high fat diet with the majority of the total calories coming from fat

Agreed. One thing I'd point out here, however, for the sake of semantics (and for newbies reading this), is what Georgiana means is that it's a "high fat" diet in proportion to what else we consume on it (i.e. the 65% fat/30% protein /5% carb ratio). It's not a "high fat" diet in the aggregate sense, such as whether 165 grams of fat are "too high," etc. It's the ratio that makes it "high fat."

This is why Georgiana put "with the majority of the total calories coming from fat" at the end of the phrase "high fat."

Just wanted to point out the combined wisdom in that entire sentence...

[Slidesdownmountains]

[QUOTE=Georgiana;1089917]
Okay... so you were probably overeating fat, since only the other day you entered it in Sparkpeople. You were also drinking too much diet coke. And you've been doing Atkins on and off since New Year. Then why, instead of changing these bad dietary habits, do you prefer to take Alli? Dr. Atkins wanted us to change our eating habits and learn to eat nutritious, healthy, minimally processed foods, not to binge on fat, take Alli and wash it down with diet coke. [quote]

This is not what I am doing - I do not want any kind of explosions - I have made a change to my diet whereby I am eating less fat and smaller portions, and have cut out diet coke. I never considered that I was bingeing on fat before: I ate 3 meals a day, but did enjoy lots of olive oil, fish, avocado, eggs, red meat, chicken (admittedly would eat my body-weight in cheese given half a chance) like everyone else here, but I wasn't counting fat (didn't think I needed to). To my shame, I didn't even realise that eggs contained fat!! Doh! Also, I never eat processed foods. Just too much of the above!

So your diet has about 1400 calories, with 55-60 g of fat... out of each 1/4 are blocked by Alli... so you have 1250-1300 calories left. This is probably less by a few hundred calories than your BMR. You should know that eating low calories & low carb will mess up your thyroid hormone levels (look for e.g. E. Danforth and A. Burger, Annu. Rev. Nutr., 1989, 9:201-27 if you're interested in a study).

To be honest I really am not keeping too much of an eye on calories, just fat, but I guess the two are reasonably hard to keep separate. I should probably eat more calorie wise, but as I have not calculated my BMR I have no idea

Did you discuss your diet with your doctor? Does he agree with you taking Alli on a low carb, low fat, low calorie diet?

Yes - she was the person who told me about Alli after my weight loss had dried up. My carb level at this point was up to around 70g a dat with exercise, so not excessively low. Of course it turns out to be a lot lower now, but I will check back in with her and we can go from there - there's not too much else I can say about that!

As I said before, I am not saying that this will be the key to my golden skinny future, but it was something I wanted to try out. If I don't get on with it, I am more than happy to go back to a week of induction and then try and keep my fat intake down a bit more but still on Atkins. If it does work, all the better, and I will have learnt a bit more about fat content of foods.