Has anyone tried Atkins and Alli (Orlistat) together?

[Georgiana]

Originally Posted by Slidesdownmountains

OK - I can take some critiquing, but it seems that you are here just to tear apart everything I say and to have the final word.

I have posted in good faith and all you've done is criticise, accuse me of lying, accuse my doctor of being a quack, and not give ONE word of support. As a moderator you need to be a little more diplomatic in your approach - whether you mean to or not, you come across as very harsh and authoritarian.

I am not going to answer the sarky comments in your last post as I am too angry.

Nope. Actually if you look through other threads you will see that moderators do not support members regardless of what they are doing. We would be irresponsible if we were to do this. Yes, we love seeing members reaching their weight and health (mini-)goals, but sometimes we have to give members advice that goes beyond "eat 3 cups of vegetables during Induction", or we have to say "yippee" but also nudge them on the correct Atkins road so that they don't get lost in Carb Jungle. However, in order to give responsible advice and/or feedback, we first need to understand what the member is doing. Also do not forget that all the advice given here is based on the Atkins Diet as per DANDR 2002, so if you are following some other nutritional approach, doing what we are telling you to do might not help your weight loss or might even be dangerous for your general health.

That being said...

I don't know why you think I've accused you of lying, because I didn't. Recently I've seen a case similar to yours on another board, where the member was eating 44% fat, 7% carbs and 32% protein. And no, she wasn't drinking alcohol. And she was using Sparkpeople, just like you. You know what the problem was? She was using custom foods and entered the wrong numbers when setting those up. If the calculators used by Sparkpeople were smart calculators, they would have figured out that the fat, carbs and protein she entered don't add up to the number of calories. Yet they didn't, so this poor girl was overeating big time and screwed her first week of Induction. That's why I am trying to understand what is happening with your numbers. It could be again a problem with Sparkpeople, which may affect your weight loss just as it affected hers.

I didn't accuse your doctor of being a quack either. But if she is monitoring your weight loss, then I believe she should also give you advice on what you should eat. That's how I see a responsible doctor acting, not simply tell you "cut fat, take Alli", especially as she knew you were eating low carb.

[jimmie 48]

Originally Posted by Slidesdownmountains

I shocked myself by logging all of my foods into Sparkpeople the other day and to my horror, although the carbs were pretty darned good - net carb intake of 34g for the day - my fat intake was 164g!!!!!!!!

I know we aren't counting calories, but the amount of fat made me feel sick! I have been doing atkins on and off since New Years, and I'd say about 8 months out of twelve over the last 5 years and I'd never realised this before! Clearly my love of cheese has taken over!

Anyhow, I have cut down on fat and started taking Alli (orlistat) which blocks about 1/4 fat absorption, and for which you need to keep to a reasonably low fat diet to avoid som...ahem....unpleasant side effects. Since last Thursday, I have lost 4lbs and feel pretty positive and energetic.

I understand that fat isn't the enemy but even in the Atkins book it said that subjects following a lowfat+ lowcarb diet had the best results of all.

I am going to see how it goes for a couple of weeks, as I am pretty pleased it has kicked me out of my month-long stall, and my belly is much smaller, but I did like the Atkins WOE that included the fats (and my cheese!!)

Has anyone else tried this at all (I feel like I am putting myself out there for a bit of a telling-off, but I had to ask!)??

i think you were kinda expecting some kind of bad feedback so perhaps the way things are put into print and the way they are read might be taken the wrong way???? i think the questions and answers are meant to be taken in a spirit of good things.


i won't add to the confusion if there is any with those percentages, as the others explain things much much better than i can. what i wonder is this....

i've looked at your stats. gosh, i wish i had some of your inches, you are 5'8" and your current weight is 157. is that right? i'm wondering why you would even go on or try alli. or start a weight loss plan in general. it's not like your suprememly overweight or anything. in fact, i'd go so far as to say, you're pretty much around a 'perfect weight'.

[not2late]

Yes - she was the person who told me about Alli after my weight loss had dried up. My carb level at this point was up to around 70g a dat with exercise, so not excessively low. Of course it turns out to be a lot lower now, but I will check back in with her and we can go from there - there's not too much else I can say about that!

Maybe you reached your CCLL. Remember, during OWL Phase, we add carbs until we find our CCLL (Critical Carbohydrate Losing Level). When we find that level, we know that we cannot exceed that carb level and still lose weight.

[jimmie 48]

Originally Posted by Reborn_Warrior

I think the easiest thing is to just do what Dr. Atkins says. All these ratios, using Fitday or other sites like it are not necessary during induction. And it is nowhere in The Book. Using things like what ratio of fat and carbs to eat is just making the diet more complicated than it has do be, and is not doing the Atkins Induction phase correctly.

Eat what is on the food list, no more than four carbs a day from cheese, keep it under 20 carbs for all foods combined, exercise, take your vitamins and eat until you are satisfied. Dr. Atkins says not to worry about all the fat you will be consuming when you start the diet. I think he understood people would be concerned about eating all that fat during Induction, that why he specifically states in the book not to worry about it when you first start.

There is no need to make Atkins complicated. It is one of the simplest ways of eating there is. If you are concerned about the fat, get through Induction and move on to the other steps were you are eating more veggies and eventually fruits and nuts.

off topic just a wee bit but i wanted to address this part of the conversation.

this is what i have always tried to do... or not do as the case may be. i don't want it to be complicated. i used the percentages at times and then did without them and for me, atkins was better when i didn't stress over them. fact is, if you are eating atkins [not a personal version of the plan] you are most likely hitting the percentages spot on most times.

[SunnySmile501]

Originally Posted by pinkfusion

Not trying to negate your feelings or butt in in any way, but it seems to me like she is and advocate rather than an adversary.

You cant eat "low fat" and be on Atkins. At least not Alli level low fat. If you want to eat low fat and be in ketosis, it has to be low fat and low calorie, high protein.

Not true. Excess protein can and will be converted to glucose and stored as fat (pages 47, 51, 138, 231). Getting into ketosis is based totally on the ratio of fat to carbohydrates (page 139). If she wants to be in ketosis, she can't eat low fat at all. She can eat LOWER fat than she was, but the ratios (higher fat than carb by a bunch) still need to be there.

Atkins and Alli are not compatible in any way. We can only give advice based on the Atkins diet plan as set forth by Dr. Atkins himself. He had nearly 40 years of hands-on experience with tens of thousands of patients to rely on. When you monkey around with the diet, you're not doing Atkins, which is each of our choice. Just don't expect the mods and successful long-timers to validate and endorse anything that goes against the basic tenets that the Atkins diet is founded on.

If she and her doc wants her to take Alli, then I suggest she try South Beach.

[SunnySmile501]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmie 48 (Has anyone tried Atkins and Alli (Orlistat) together?)
off topic just a wee bit but i wanted to address this part of the conversation.

this is what i have always tried to do... or not do as the case may be. i don't want it to be complicated. i used the percentages at times and then did without them and for me, atkins was better when i didn't stress over them. fact is, if you are eating atkins [not a personal version of the plan] you are most likely hitting the percentages spot on most times.

Originally Posted by Reborn_Warrior

I agree. Dr. Atkins seems to have worked the plan that way. While the ratios might not be exact everyday, I think that it probably stays pretty consistent. As I progress through the phases I might look at ratios more, but for now it’s easier for me just to focus about carbs. It sure beats following all those other things I tried (South Beach, Weight Watchers, calories counting, etc)!

I agree wholeheartedly with you both. The reason Dr. A gave limits to low carb veggies, while strictly limiting low carb foods such as cheese, cream, shellfish, organ meats, artificial sweeteners, etc., and eliminating higher carb foods was so we wouldn't have to keep track of all those numbers. As long as we followed the rules about getting plenty of fat and adequate protein to satisfy our hunger, without gorging or feeling stuffed, all would come out right in the end--calories, carbs, fat and protein will take care of themselves and fall in line. No sense making a simple thing complicated.

[chillispice]

Oh, Sunny, I so agree with that - keep it simple, don't analyse the detail and follow the plan as it was designed and it will work. We can spend hours tweaking the ratios, but the bottom line is that if we follow what Dr A. specified and measure carefully, we can't go too far wrong.

[chillispice]

- and I forgot to say: why would I need drugs to manage my diet? If I am eating whole food, cutting processed carbs and not eating to excess, then I am eating a healthy diet.

[imagood1]

Originally Posted by Slidesdownmountains

OMG!! I'm so sorry you had such a bad experience - that's awful, nightmarish cold sweat stuff (and is what is currently keeping me away from fatty foods)!!! Did you go straight from Atkins into it?? What made you try it?

I said in my first post that my doctor (at the time) advised me to try it -- that was long before I went on Atkins...it was right after Alli came on the market and was "all the buzz".....I wouldn't recommend it to anyone and try to talk anyone I know out of even trying it. I have heard too many people who have had the same problem I had on that plan.

Just remember - the weight you are trying to get rid of didn't come on overnight - it's going to take some work to get it off....Alli is not part of the Atkins plan if you are using this or any other diet product you aren't really on the Atkins plan the way it was written. Like I said before I wouldn't recommend ANYONE use it. Stick to the Atkins plan the way it was written - you will loose the weight. If you have been on Atkins before you aren't going to loose as easily or as quickly as before -- nothing is the same .... your body isn't the same today as it was before - you can't go by what everyone else looses - you aren't "everyone else" -- it's not easy waiting for the weight to come off but it will happen.

We advocate the 2002 Atkins plan here - not versions of it, the way it was written by Dr. Atkins. When you post you are asking for other people's advise, if you don't like our advise I'm really sorry because you were told the day you posted the first time what this forum was about so you shouldn't be upset when we don't vary from Dr. Atkins writing.

I hope you stop the pills and get back on the real plan.

[Slidesdownmountains]

Originally Posted by misplaced southerner

hey slidesdownmountains! i just came across this thread. can i add something here? first of all, i feel your pain. i too have come sooooo close to goal or just stopped losing so many times when i get to a certain point. it is VERY tempting to want to try something new to spark an extra loss and to restart the fat burning process.

i also commend you for talking to your doctor. i am sure that you, like many of us, have had good and bad docs, and those who follow different practices and have different beliefs.

so.....if i may share my experience with you, maybe it will help some. i am 48. for about a year now i have not felt myself and i have done a LOT of reading and research on all the things that make us work (as women.) we are a HIGHLY complex system of hormones, insulin, cortisal and such. interestingly enough, and unfortunately as well, that ALL play on one another. and if ONE is off, it plays heck with the rest. i am not as good at the scientific details as georgianna is but as simply as i can put it is this....when your hormonal levels are off even slighly, it WILL affect cortisal levels, insulin output, metabolism....all which make is MAKE FAT and HOLD ONTO FAT. so ANYTHING we do to throw that balance off has a negative effect on the rest of things.

i recently went to a preventitive medicine specialist who is doing saliva testing (not all docs agree with that but it IS more conclusive than blood tests) to determine which hormones are off (didn't show up much in bloodwork) and also to test cortisal levels, DHEA, and metabolic hormones. i hope to find results there because i deal with WEIGHT GAIN, TROUBLE LOSING WEIGHT, FATIGUE, FOGGY BRAIN (ha!)and sadly, IRRITABILITY. all of this probably caused by something in my body being "off."

my old doc suggested that i am depressed and wanted to give me an antidepressant or anti anxiety drug....guess what i found out when i researched it? THAT DRUG CAUSES THE BODY'S METABOLISM TO SLOW DOWN WHICH CAUSES WEIGHT GAIN. THEN AFTER USE, THE BODY HAS TROUBLE BUILDING ITS METABOLISM AGAIN!

what is the point of me saying this? heck i can't remember anymore! just to say to be VERY careful about what you put in your body. it is a VERY intricate system. VERY much so. and it takes a VERY fine balance for it to work as efficiently as possible. i don't know how old you are but at 48 and with NO SYMPTOMS of menopause, i was surprised that the doctor even suggested doing this work up but after feeling like an alien in my own body, i said ok.

also, may i add too, that when i WAS stuck at a certain weight level, the wise sages here advised me to be patient. weight loss is not linear. (but you know that). what did help for me was...
-eating regularly thruout the day and keeping the blood sugar UP
-EXERCISE...ramp it up, change it out. i'd do cardio one day, weights the next, yoga..
-drown yourself in water
-THINK POSITIVELY. you are building a healthy body on the inside even if you can't see what you want yet on the outside

i commend you also for coming here and seeking info. that's what it's all about. be wise my friend. you have one body. it is YOURS and it is perfect. keep it that way. and it never hurts to seek a second medical opinion. there is a wealth of medical advice out there from providers who study and practive alternatives to the norm.

good luck and let us know how you are doing. i promise you that if you stick with this, and fight thru the plateau, you WILL see results. you will be fit and strong and healthy and HOT (hee hee!). have a great day.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts - it's really interesting that you have someone who will take an interest and test your hormone levels like that. Here, most people are lucky to get 5 minutes squeezed in with a doctor, so I don't go unless I am properly sick. (It took me about 3 months to just be able to register with my local GP as they require you to pop in for a health check, but I work miles away from home and am a contractor so don't get paid for time off, but I digress!)
When I went to see my doctor, it was for a reason outside of weight loss (I don't consider my stall an illness, just frustrating!) and so I would never ask for or expect a blood work up for something that I consider to be quite trivial relative to all the other nastiness going about!
I think she suggested Fitday/Sparks to me as a tool just for my own benefit (NOT to do her diagnosis for her) probably knowing that regardless of what I was saying I was eating, I was probably in for a surprise. And she suggested Alli as one of a number of options to aid in my weight loss. She did not at any time say 'cut fat, take alli'.

I was shocked this morning, but I am back in ketosis - sticks are dark pink, no side effects of Alli, I am eating regularly and not hungry, plus am doing a fair amount of exercise which varies with each class. We are also experiencing some kind of freak heatwave (for once!) which means I am drinking about 16 glasses of water a day as well!!

Perhaps it was a hormone thing - I am 30 years old, so perhaps my metabolic rate is slowing down a little anyway. I will probably never know, but as I say - I have bought the bottle now, and I will see it through to the end of 2 weeks (not a long time!).
If it takes a few extra pounds off, great, I will probably leave the pills and go back to low carb, with slightly less fat than Atkins recommends while still staying in ketosis, and if it doesn't work, I'll give it a few days to clear from my system and go back on an induction.
So I am not by any means saying that Atkins doesn't work - I know it does, but I am trying something else for a little while.
At least I'll have got used to eating less and to stop using fatty snacks as a crutch. For me the fat in my diet has only been there to sate my appetite and of late I had been using too much of it!

I WILL NOT CALL WHAT I AM DOING NOW 'ATKINS DIET', I PROMISE!!
(To be honest, telling some people that I was on Atkins before has provoked such a hostile reaction that I have even lied about it and said I was following another plan! Is it still so controversial?? Anyone else get that? Perhaps I am just a bit sensitive!!)

I still would like to be able to post my thoughts and experiences here as I have mostly had constructive advice and tons of support. If that's not possible, I will find another forum to post on, but I hope not.