Has anyone tried Atkins and Alli (Orlistat) together?

[Slidesdownmountains]

LOL - thank you Maggie C and Sham for your comments, and confirmation that I am indeed a woman!

As I have written in the last post, I do not always take Alli, though I did take it for just over a week with no side effects and some weight loss.

Not2Late - in response to your note - I HAVE reduced my fat - that's what kickstarted this whole thing off: I don't want people to think you can eat a normal Atkins amount of fat and just pop Alli - this would result in some kind of horrendous bathroom incident, I'm sure....which is why I have stated that what I was doing could not be called Atkins (though I consider that I am now on atkins, whilst not taking Alli)

My current food stats are around 45.8% cals from fat, 39.9% from protein and 14.3% from carbs (65g fat, 127g protein and 45g carb, with 15g fibre) - these obviously vary from day to day depending on dinner and lunch, and probably are not exact Akins standards (no-one came on this diet to do lots of fiddly measuring - beauty of it is that mostly it is easy) but I find I am not hungry, am in ketosis, have plenty of energy and am losing weight (most importantly!).

I would take Alli again as it does seem to work, but it's not always practical (it doesn't for instance take into consideration that you may be eating GOOD fats - avocado, olive oil, fish etc -that you don't want it to count!!)

The one thing I would say to people, is that you do need to keep an eye on how much you are eating - I was amazed at how much 25g shredded cheese was, for example, and in general, how much fat is in things, and can see that it would be easy to be overeating. I now know I don't need nearly as much in quantity or in satiating fats to sustain me.

Good luck to you all.

[Georgiana]

Originally Posted by Maggie c

I do understand where you are coming from and I do agree that taking Alli whilst consuming high fat foods is a receipe for disaster especially in the bathroom! I myself am concentrating on the high protein side of the atkins in the form of meat egg and enough dairy to keep me healthy, my fat intake is very low and as a result of this i have not experienced any of the bad side affects associated with Alli. whether i would be achieving the same results just using the atkins?... I don't know

I don't know either. But I am certain that there is no such thing as a low-fat Atkins. From DANDR 2002, Chapter 17, page 223, "The Wrong Way to do Atkins":

9. MISCONCEPTION: You can do Atkins while following a low-fat regimen.
REALITY: To encourage your body to burn its own stores of fat, you need to reduce the amount of carbohydrates you eat, meaning you need to eat primarily foods rich in protein and fat. Remember that essential fatty acids play a role in normal metabolic function. Fat also plays a role in stabilizing blood sugar and increasing satiety. If fat intake is too low, you will not burn fat aggressively. Moreover, excess protein converts to glucose and can keep fat from becoming the primary fuel.

and also from DANDR 2002, Chapter 5, page 55:

Can I manage my insulin and blood sugar without eating much fat?

No, because when you cut out fat, what is left is protein and carbohydrate, both of which can produce a blood-sugar response. Fat is the only substance that won't have an impact on your blood sugar. It also provides essential fatty acids you can't get from protein and carbohydrates. Contrary to much of what you may have heard, fat can be good for you!

So you see, Atkins is a high fat, moderate protein, low carbohydrate diet that follows certain rules. Doing a low fat Atkins is like saying you are playing chess but moving the rooks in diagonal. You might win the game, but it's not a game of chess anymore.

Originally Posted by Maggie c

Maybe Dr Atkins didn't recommend Alli because at that time it wasn't available Just a thought.......... lol

What Megs said is that "Dr. Atkins didn't encourage or endorse the use of pharmacologic agents whose mode of action are physiologically antagonistic to ketogenic lypolysis." No mention of Alli. And she is right, because Dr. Atkins didn't recommend Xenical for example, although it has been available since 1998. In fact, I would go a little further and say that Dr. Atkins did not encourage or endorse any weight loss pills.

From DANDR 2002, Chapter 28, page 361:

Many people delude themselves about weight loss. They like to think they can lose those excess pounds by some magical burst of willpower, or they're waiting for the perfect drug to come along: Fen-Phen II without the deadly side effects.

Doesn't sound as someone who would support the use of weight loss drugs, does he?

As it has been repeated numerous times in this thread, Slidesdownmountains was overeating fat. That is the reason why her weight loss stalled and she was feeling sick. The Atkins way to solve the problem would have been to simply decrease the fat intake to a normal Atkins level, not to take a fat blocker (in addition). Many folks read the part where Dr. Atkins says we are allowed to eat "liberally of combinations of fat and protein" as "on Atkins you can go ahead and gorge on fat and protein." And that is sad and gives Atkins a bad name, because no where in the book does Dr. Atkins say anything like that. In fact, if these folks had read further and/or more carefully, they would have seen that gorging is not part of Atkins.

[Slidesdownmountains]

Originally Posted by Georgiana

Slidesdownmountains was overeating fat. That is the reason why her weight loss stalled and she was feeling sick. The Atkins way to solve the problem would have been to simply decrease the fat intake to a normal Atkins level, not to take a fat blocker (in addition). Many folks read the part where Dr. Atkins says we are allowed to eat "liberally of combinations of fat and protein" as "on Atkins you can go ahead and gorge on fat and protein." And that is sad and gives Atkins a bad name, because no where in the book does Dr. Atkins say anything like that. In fact, if these folks had read further and/or more carefully, they would have seen that gorging is not part of Atkins.

Georgiana - so many quotations, so little time.

Perhaps it could be misinterpreted in my initial post, but when I say that the amount of fat made me feel sick - I don't mean to say that I was sick, it was making me ill, or even that I was nauseous, more that the shock of how much I was eating grossed me out.
I should also point out that I now realise that diet sodas and most carbonated drinks tend to stall me (and get me addicted!), wine makes me lose my motivation to be 'good', and I can't have 'just one strawberry'. All important lessons, I think you'll agree

Also, I have never read Atkins and thought of it as a license to eat however much steak, cream, cheese, meat, and fats as I wanted.
I, possibly like other people, had read the book CAREFULLY and cover to cover, but had been getting comfortable with this WOE, and having been on plan for a while the levels had slowly crept up over time (much like the way I got overweight in the first place).

I truly didn't feel like I was 'gorging', by eating a handful of cashews, a slice of brie, coffee with cream, or some avocado with a fillet of salmon and salad with an olive oil dressing, but when you add these up, it can be pretty shocking to see how much fat they actually contain.

I realise that it did need to be cut down, and it has made a huge difference to my measurements and number on the scale.

[not2late]

Originally Posted by sham

Maggie c i bet your going to get a proper telling off from someone very soon.

If "the proper telling off from someone very soon" means that someone will point out to Maggie C that there is not such thing as a "high protein side of Atkins" which keeps the fat intake "very low", then you just got what you predicted.

Please refer to Georgiana's post for the parts in the book everyone has read for the specific sections.

Again this is the Atkins Diet Bulletin Board and we advise people based on the 2002 edition of the diet. That book does not indicate at all that Atkins is a high protein, low fat, low carb diet that requires the use of drugs in order to enhance or enable weight loss. So keep that in mind when posting here, especially if you are following some random non-Atkins low carb diet and you are seeking advice/guidance here. What is posted here may not help you and may, in fact, hurt your weight loss efforts.

[jsj0305]

I just wanted to chime in from personal experience...while you might have lost weight on Alli...all it does is block of the fat you're eating, not teach you how to eat. And really...isn't that what got us all into trouble in the first place?

Yes, it does take some measuring on our part to make sure the rations are correct but I know plugging into fitday is free, and it puts me into control of my body... something Alli cannot do. Am I saying it's horrible, not by a long shot. I'm sure it's helped many people to lose weight. But it's the keeping it off part that counts. If we take Atkins for granted (as I have done a million times, lol) it will all come back. The easier way out, while it looks fantastic, is never the best route. So if you have to measure a little bit more and put forth a little more effort, I feel you should. B/c then you know what it took to get to your goal. And you'll know what it takes to stay there. You can't take Alli forever, but you can watch what you eat and be mindful of your rations, ya know?

We have to start with ourselves and if that means measure or keeping a very close eye on our food...so be it. I'd rather do that until the day I die and know that I am healthy and in control 100% of the time of my body.

You have had wonderful success on Atkins and I hope to decide to stick with this WOL and let it do it's magic No one ever said it'd be easy but we both know it's soooooo worth it