Has anyone tried Atkins and Alli (Orlistat) together?

[Slidesdownmountains]

I shocked myself by logging all of my foods into Sparkpeople the other day and to my horror, although the carbs were pretty darned good - net carb intake of 34g for the day - my fat intake was 164g!!!!!!!!

I know we aren't counting calories, but the amount of fat made me feel sick! I have been doing atkins on and off since New Years, and I'd say about 8 months out of twelve over the last 5 years and I'd never realised this before! Clearly my love of cheese has taken over!

Anyhow, I have cut down on fat and started taking Alli (orlistat) which blocks about 1/4 fat absorption, and for which you need to keep to a reasonably low fat diet to avoid som...ahem....unpleasant side effects. Since last Thursday, I have lost 4lbs and feel pretty positive and energetic.

I understand that fat isn't the enemy but even in the Atkins book it said that subjects following a lowfat+ lowcarb diet had the best results of all.

I am going to see how it goes for a couple of weeks, as I am pretty pleased it has kicked me out of my month-long stall, and my belly is much smaller, but I did like the Atkins WOE that included the fats (and my cheese!!)

Has anyone else tried this at all (I feel like I am putting myself out there for a bit of a telling-off, but I had to ask!)??

[sham]

Re: Has anyone tried Atkins and Alli (Orlistat) together?

No I haven't tried the tablets because a friend of mine was exercising on a low fat diet and brought them 2 weeks supply for £25 and she only lost a lb I thought that was a crap deal.The mg is not that high either they could have been higher.My dad also brought them followed a low fat diet no loss waste of money their not that effective on low fat diet and cause heavy diaoriah but you used them on the atkins diet and it speeded up the weight loss im really tempted.

[Slidesdownmountains]

Re: Has anyone tried Atkins and Alli (Orlistat) together?

Yeah - I was pretty surprised as I was on a very high fat diet before I started that I didn't get any side effects - a bit of an ache for about 1/2 an hour then going to the loo but nothing substantial, and that was only after I exceeded 25g fat, unknowingly (should stick to under 15g apparently).
What I was surprised about was how much fat is in everything - I know I have been on Atkins so not really paying attention to it, but it was a shock. I thought I had set myself a nice low-fat, low carb dinner the other day and input it on Sparkpeople and realised there was over 40g! I think these 'hidden fats' account for a lot of the side effects people have reported.
With regards to strength, the tablets available without prescription are 60g, whereas normal Xenical (only on prescription in UK) is 120g....so you can see where you could possibly make amendments.....! ;-)
I am not going to make a stand either way for Alli until I have given it a couple of weeks - thanks for the feedback!

[Georgiana]

Re: Has anyone tried Atkins and Alli (Orlistat) together?

I shocked myself by logging all of my foods into Sparkpeople the other day and to my horror, although the carbs were pretty darned good - net carb intake of 34g for the day - my fat intake was 164g!!!!!!!!

I know we aren't counting calories, but the amount of fat made me feel sick! I have been doing atkins on and off since New Years, and I'd say about 8 months out of twelve over the last 5 years and I'd never realised this before! Clearly my love of cheese has taken over!

If that much fat made you sick (btw, how many calories are you consuming?), you probably overate, which is not something you should do on Atkins. We should only eat to satisfy our hunger, without getting full/stuffed.

Cheese is limited during Induction (from your profile info, I assume you are/were doing Induction).

It might sound harsh, but using Alli in order to minimize (or so you think) the damage of your bad eating habits is not very different from making yourself purge after a binge.

Anyhow, I have cut down on fat and started taking Alli (orlistat) which blocks about 1/4 fat absorption, and for which you need to keep to a reasonably low fat diet to avoid som...ahem....unpleasant side effects. Since last Thursday, I have lost 4lbs and feel pretty positive and energetic.

So, if you stopped overeating fat, why did you start to also take Alli? By the way, there is no low fat version of Atkins. There is a low fat, low carb diet whose creator says it's derived from Atkins, but it has a different name. And check the side effects of Alli too. What you lost is probably water, not fat and you are messing up your electrolyte balance and vitamin absorption, to name only a few problems.

I understand that fat isn't the enemy but even in the Atkins book it said that subjects following a lowfat+ lowcarb diet had the best results of all.

Compared to what dietary approach? Can you tell me the page number in DANDR please?

If you want to experiment with low carb and Alli, at least do yourself a favor and tell your doctor what you are doing.

[Alexa]

Re: Has anyone tried Atkins and Alli (Orlistat) together?

I can see why you would be tempted to do this, and I saw an advert for this product the other day and briefly wondered if it would help - but then saw it needed a low fat diet. So I think Georgiana is right - Atkins is a dietary approach that requires a high level of fat (comparatively).

Though it seems odd when you've been doing low fat methods before you need the fat for this work. Trying to limit your fat intake whilst on Atkins is bringing together two kinds of diet in a way which means I don't think you could do well on either of them.

Best of luck with your WOL, whichever you chose though

[Slapshot]

Re: Has anyone tried Atkins and Alli (Orlistat) together?

I can't quite picture what a "low fat + low carb" diet/menu would even look like. Could you post your typical menu on this sort of plan?

[SunnySmile501]

Re: Has anyone tried Atkins and Alli (Orlistat) together?

Page 127 DANDR 2002 Dr. Atkins writes: "I cannot stress strongly enough that trying to do a low-fat version of Atkins will interfere with fat burning and derail fat loss."

[Slidesdownmountains]

Re: Has anyone tried Atkins and Alli (Orlistat) together?

Georgina - you're right: it does sound quite harsh. I am just posting to get feedback, not a list of my eating faults.

I have realised that I was overeating fat, which is what I said (my calories were through the roof, too - 2500 or so, but as far as I recall we weren't supposed to be counting everything). So if the only thing I get from the Alli experience, is the knowledge that I will not get by hungry eating less, and I do not need to eat fats every time I get hungry, then I will of course lose weight, and be healthier in the process. Perhaps other posters may have fallen into this trap like me?

I do not have the page number but when I get home to my book , I will endeavour to find the information: it was an experiment regarding the usual 'recommended' high-carb, low-fat diet, a low carb, high fat diet and a low fat, low carb diet.

I doubt very much that I would have lost water weight as I don't really retain it and drink over 10 glasses at least per day, and with regards to the vitamins concern, as with some of the other supplements recommended in Atkins, I take a multi-vit before bed, so that it can be absorbed. I was well-advised on these aspects from the pharmacist when I bought the 2-week pack, and so feel like I am making a somewhat well-informed choice. It's a medically tested drug, FDA approved, not Phen-Fen/Hydroxycut or anything!!

It's true that the side-effects have been well-documented and definitely stick in the mind more than the positive results. I can see why one of the listed side-effects may be 'anxiety'!
Also, there's plenty of bad press about Atkins, too so I try to read both sides. I'm not by any means recommending everyone go out and buy it and change their WOE, I was honestly curious. We're all here to lose weight and be healthier after all.

I have previously been having good results with Atkins, but was disappointed to be stuck at a certain weight for over a month which has not happened before and I thought I was making a concerted effort to stick to plan (have moved on to OWL - Berries, fruits, just not updated profile). This could be down to several things: too much diet coke, building muscle with my exercise class, too much fat (though the amount I eat hasn't changed in recent months) etc etc.

Slapshot: my menu has been similar to below for the past 5 days (obviously not the same everyday)
Breakfast - 2 scrambled eggs with 1/2 tbsp cream, grated mushrooms, 20g grated cheddar cheese, sliced pork loin, and a cup of peppermint tea - 15g fat, 3 net carbs, 239kcal
Lunch: Tuna with teaspoon full-fat mayo, red peppers, red onions, cucumber, cherry toms - 373kcal, 14g fat, 12 net carbs
Snack: olives/silverkin mini pickled onions/celery sticks (sometimes with a little peanut butter - 4g fat)
Dinner: 150g lean sirloin steak rubbed with garlic and rosemary and pan griddled, 5 lg asparagus spears and a cup and a half of mixed salad leaves with a little olive oil and lemon juice - 16g fat, 7 carbs, 640kcals
Plus, tea and coffee with 2% milk, and around 10-12 glasses water, dependent on exercise, heat etc.

I also walk to and from the train station to work every weekday (3.6 miles), and go to 5 hours of pole-fitness each week.

I do appreciate the honest feedback, and please keep an open mind.

[Slidesdownmountains]

Re: Has anyone tried Atkins and Alli (Orlistat) together?

Gosh - just realised how long that rant was....sorry!

[Slapshot]

Re: Has anyone tried Atkins and Alli (Orlistat) together?

How has your hunger been on that plan? I would be ravenously hungry without more fat than that, but alas, everyone's different.

Also, I'm not sure I understand some of your numbers: Lunch: "Tuna with teaspoon full-fat mayo, red peppers, red onions, cucumber, cherry toms - 373kcal, 14g fat, 12 net carbs"

There are about 11g of fat in a TABLEspoon of mayo, so there are about 3.5g of fat in a TEAspoon, so I'm not sure where the 14g of fat comes from.

[Slidesdownmountains]

Re: Has anyone tried Atkins and Alli (Orlistat) together?

How has your hunger been on that plan? I would be ravenously hungry without more fat than that, but alas, everyone's different.

Yeah - I thought I would be about ready to faint, but as it turns out I have been a 'pre-emptive eater', eating just in case I got hungry!!!

Also, I'm not sure I understand some of your numbers: Lunch: "Tuna with teaspoon full-fat mayo, red peppers, red onions, cucumber, cherry toms - 373kcal, 14g fat, 12 net carbs"

There are about 11g of fat in a TABLEspoon of mayo, so there are about 3.5g of fat in a TEAspoon, so I'm not sure where the 14g of fat comes from.

My bad!! you're quite right - goign back to Sparks, it was a tablespoon (even better: more mayo!), and by the looks of it, my brand is pretty heavy with the fat! Also the tuna is listed as having 2 grams.

[Slapshot]

Re: Has anyone tried Atkins and Alli (Orlistat) together?

Ahh, got it. It doesn't sound as low-fat as I thought when I read your first post. It's probably better described as "lower-than-normal-Atkins-fat."

[Slidesdownmountains]

Re: Has anyone tried Atkins and Alli (Orlistat) together?

Ahh, got it. It doesn't sound as low-fat as I thought when I read your first post. It's probably better described as "lower-than-normal-Atkins-fat."

Not as catchy, but I like it...!!

I think I average about 50g-60g a day of fat with none of the ill-effects thus far...(long may that continue!)

[imagood1]

Re: Has anyone tried Atkins and Alli (Orlistat) together?

Someone posted the other day about taking diet pills along with following Atkins... I don't understand why....I don't loose as quickly as others and had a couple times where I went a month without any weight loss. I understand it is frustrating but when the weight starts moving again it feels great.

As far as Alli -- I did the program when it first came out...if you gross out easily stop reading now:

the first couple days I felt ok - the 3rd day my stomach started feeling like it was filled with maple syrup (heavy and with a "rolling" feeling) I started feeling really sick. Stomach cramping started after that. I had to go to the grocery store and on the way home it happened. I am over 50 years old and lost control of my bowels. That happened for 3 days - several times a day. I called my doctor (since he thought it would be a good idea) and he told me to stop taking it.

During my fun time on "Alli" I lost a total of 2 pounds. Wow -- Probably from my bowels letting go. It took almost 2 weeks afterward until I started feeling better.

When I was sitting in the doctors office a few weeks ago I overheard a couple ladies talking about their experiences on "Alli".....funny, they had the same problems I had.

Personally, I wouldn't do it again for anything! Maybe the FDA has said it's a good thing but I seriously disagree with them. It you are serious, stick to Atkins - up your fitness routine, tweak your daily food intake and it will work for you too.

Remember, you ask for suggestions and critique -- that is what you will get when you ask for it. When you ask for us to celebrate your loss, your birthday, your goldfish giving birth we all will get behind you and do that also. You may think it seems harsh but we are a family and we all want what is best for each other. Harsh or not!

[Georgiana]

Re: Has anyone tried Atkins and Alli (Orlistat) together?

I have realised that I was overeating fat, which is what I said (my calories were through the roof, too - 2500 or so, but as far as I recall we weren't supposed to be counting everything).

Counting is not necessary, but this does not mean calories are not important. Dr. Atkins repeats several times throughout DANDR 2002 that calories do matter and overeating will lead to a stall in weight loss or even to weight gain. As Dr. Atkins puts it, Atkins "does not give you a license to gorge". As long as you can make the difference between eating to satisfy your hunger and eating to stuff your belly just because a food is low in carbs, counting is not necessary. If you cannot make this difference, then you need to develop strategies to teach yourself healthy eating habits. Taking Alli is not one of them, imo.

So if the only thing I get from the Alli experience, is the knowledge that I will not get by hungry eating less, and I do not need to eat fats every time I get hungry, then I will of course lose weight, and be healthier in the process. Perhaps other posters may have fallen into this trap like me?

If you were overeating before, then eating less will not leave you hungry. So you can gain the same experience by just listening to your hunger, without taking Alli.

Yes, you may be losing fat because you are restricting calories. But read further...

I doubt very much that I would have lost water weight as I don't really retain it and drink over 10 glasses at least per day, and with regards to the vitamins concern, as with some of the other supplements recommended in Atkins, I take a multi-vit before bed, so that it can be absorbed. I was well-advised on these aspects from the pharmacist when I bought the 2-week pack, and so feel like I am making a somewhat well-informed choice. It's a medically tested drug, FDA approved, not Phen-Fen/Hydroxycut or anything!!

It's true that the side-effects have been well-documented and definitely stick in the mind more than the positive results. I can see why one of the listed side-effects may be 'anxiety'!

Did you check what diets the participants in these tests were following? Were they low carb, low fat diets? I can tell you they weren't. They were high carb, low fat diets. You cannot extrapolate the results and say Alli is safe (or at least, just as safe) to take on a low carb, low fat diet.

I do not have the page number but when I get home to my book , I will endeavour to find the information: it was an experiment regarding the usual 'recommended' high-carb, low-fat diet, a low carb, high fat diet and a low fat, low carb diet.

I believe the study you are talking about was comparing a high GL diet with a low GL one, but I'll wait for the page number.

Also, there's plenty of bad press about Atkins, too so I try to read both sides.

Press, yes. Research, not really.

This is how things often travel from the lab to the news:

I have previously been having good results with Atkins, but was disappointed to be stuck at a certain weight for over a month which has not happened before and I thought I was making a concerted effort to stick to plan (have moved on to OWL - Berries, fruits, just not updated profile). This could be down to several things: too much diet coke, building muscle with my exercise class, too much fat (though the amount I eat hasn't changed in recent months) etc etc.

Okay... so you were probably overeating fat, since only the other day you entered it in Sparkpeople. You were also drinking too much diet coke. And you've been doing Atkins on and off since New Year. Then why, instead of changing these bad dietary habits, do you prefer to take Alli? Dr. Atkins wanted us to change our eating habits and learn to eat nutritious, healthy, minimally processed foods, not to binge on fat, take Alli and wash it down with diet coke. It's just not Atkins, because Atkins is based on four principles---not only losing weight, but maintaining your goal, improving your health and preventing diseases. While you may lose weight, you will never learn how you need to eat to maintain goal, unless you plan on taking Alli forever, which I doubt.

Slapshot: my menu has been similar to below for the past 5 days (obviously not the same everyday)
Breakfast - 2 scrambled eggs with 1/2 tbsp cream, grated mushrooms, 20g grated cheddar cheese, sliced pork loin, and a cup of peppermint tea - 15g fat, 3 net carbs, 239kcal
Lunch: Tuna with teaspoon full-fat mayo, red peppers, red onions, cucumber, cherry toms - 373kcal, 14g fat, 12 net carbs
Snack: olives/silverkin mini pickled onions/celery sticks (sometimes with a little peanut butter - 4g fat)
Dinner: 150g lean sirloin steak rubbed with garlic and rosemary and pan griddled, 5 lg asparagus spears and a cup and a half of mixed salad leaves with a little olive oil and lemon juice - 16g fat, 7 carbs, 640kcals
Plus, tea and coffee with 2% milk, and around 10-12 glasses water, dependent on exercise, heat etc.

So your diet has about 1400 calories, with 55-60 g of fat... out of each 1/4 are blocked by Alli... so you have 1250-1300 calories left. This is probably less by a few hundred calories than your BMR. You should know that eating low calories & low carb will mess up your thyroid hormone levels (look for e.g. E. Danforth and A. Burger, Annu. Rev. Nutr., 1989, 9:201-27 if you're interested in a study).

Did you discuss your diet with your doctor? Does he agree with you taking Alli on a low carb, low fat, low calorie diet?