Where do we get our facts regarding the testing strips?

[G-Mom]

Ok, first off I don't want to offend anyone, however, I have been a bit wary of the statement that has been all over the board regarding the LTS. The one that says that "there are no degrees of ketosis, it is like a pregnancy test, you are or you aren't."

Where did we get that idea from? Dr. A does not say that in DANDR. I finally got the 2002 version (I know, finally) and read every instance he talks about the LTS. Where he talks about it the most is page 120. On this page he does say there are degrees of ketosis.

"The strips will change to pink or purple, depending upon how many ketones are present. The more ketones you excrete, and therefore the greater degree of ketosis you are in, the darker the color."

He does say it doesn't matter if they are pink or purple, since we have different metabolisms, plus other factors.

Another thing, he never mentions that the sticks could be lighter due to diluted urine, and neither does the site, so I am assuming that is speculation. I believe this part, as it has happened to me, and it makes a lot of sense, but it's not in the book (as far as I could see).

Again, I am sorry to be the devil's advocate here, but if we are going to tell the newbies info we consider iron-clad fact, then we should make sure we saw it in the book or website.

Now, I do know that Dr. A said even the slightest pink means you are burning fat, this is true. What this is about is that we have many times said there are no degrees of ketosis, when in fact, Dr. A says there are.

Ok, proceed to throw tomatoes at me (please make sure they are ripe.)

[Checkers]

I personally am happy just to test positive for the ketones since I rarely have ever been in the dark colors (only right after re-inducting this time). I'm visibly losing weight so I guess I have faith in the 'any positive is good' theory. Sometimes it's so pale that I'm not sure of the result so I just stop drinking anything for an hour or so and check again. So far always positive so I'm happy. :nod

[sadie147]

Very good point G-mom!

I jsut found a good article about Ketostrips (i've googled it and found that most sites state exactly what the atkins site does as you quoted above)

What if your sticks don't "turn"?
A negative result does not always mean you're not in ketosis. If you're keeping your carbs below a certain level (different for different people, but the 20 to 40 carbs per day range is a safe bet), you're probably in ketosis. Some people use their ketones more efficiently, and indeed make fewer of them, hence their lack of "spill" into the urine.

Keep in mind, though, that it's possible to keep your actual carb count low (say at around 30 grams), and still side-step ketosis. The culprits? Most often it's from eating foods that contain even a small amount of "High Fructose Corn Syrup" (HFCS), which can cause a strong insulin spike and halt fat burning. HFCS is far more destructive to your health and your weight loss than regular sugar.

You might also be a person who reacts to aspartame intake with an insulin release. The Atkins Center reports up to 25% of people have such a reaction to aspartame (NutraSweet.)

An appreciable amount of trans fats in the diet can also halt weight loss and fat breakdown. Why? Because trans fats are artificial fats that the body fails to recognize as "real", and attempts simply to store them, taking an "I'll deal with it some other time" approach.

http://www.lowcarbluxury.com/ketostix.html

I'll be using my tomatos for my salad at lunch

[tickletussler]

I'm with Checkers here - if I get any colour on my stix, I'm happy.
Just because the stix are darker, it just means more ketones were released - it could've been I just had more meat & fat than normal just before hand *shrug*

I guess that's why we have this board. some of the mods managed to clarify some issues with Dr A before he died. There's a lot in DANDR that Dr A isn't clear on, or he couldn't expanded more on, but now he's gone, well...

[not2late]

Re: Where do we get our facts regarding the testing strips?

Ok, first off I don't want to offend anyone, however, I have been a bit wary of the statement that has been all over the board regarding the LTS. The one that says that "there are no degrees of ketosis, it is like a pregnancy test, you are or you aren't."

Where did we get that idea from? Dr. A does not say that in DANDR. I finally got the 2002 version (I know, finally) and read every instance he talks about the LTS. Where he talks about it the most is page 120. On this page he does say there are degrees of ketosis.

"The strips will change to pink or purple, depending upon how many ketones are present. The more ketones you excrete, and therefore the greater degree of ketosis you are in, the darker the color."

He does say it doesn't matter if they are pink or purple, since we have different metabolisms, plus other factors.

Another thing, he never mentions that the sticks could be lighter due to diluted urine, and neither does the site, so I am assuming that is speculation. I believe this part, as it has happened to me, and it makes a lot of sense, but it's not in the book (as far as I could see).

Again, I am sorry to be the devil's advocate here, but if we are going to tell the newbies info we consider iron-clad fact, then we should make sure we saw it in the book or website.

Now, I do know that Dr. A said even the slightest pink means you are burning fat, this is true. What this is about is that we have many times said there are no degrees of ketosis, when in fact, Dr. A says there are.

Ok, proceed to throw tomatoes at me (please make sure they are ripe.)

Regarding the FAQs on Ketostix:
Ketostix color

http://www.atkinsdietbulletinboard.com/viewtopic.php?t=68063

This FAQ was culled from a number of posts by 2Big and from the book itself.

When to test ketones

http://www.atkinsdietbulletinboard.com/viewtopic.php?t=68065

This FAQ was originally posted by a member who called the ketostix manufacturers for their instructions on when and how to test. I remember this well, because there was some controversy on the board about when to test and how to test etc.

Physical signs of ketosis/lipolysis

http://www.atkinsdietbulletinboard.com/viewtopic.php?t=68113

This is from the book.

Also, if you do a little research on ketone bodies and ketostix, you'll find that your bod produces 3 ketone bodies: beta-hydroxybutryic acid, acetoacetic acid, and acetone. Beta-hydroxybutryic acid is also known as the "serum" ketone. It's the ketone body that comprises about 80% of your ketone bodies and the only way to test for it is through a blood test. Acetoacetic acid is also known as the "urinary" ketone. Because it's excreted through the kidneys, it is the ketone body the ketostix test (read the box and you'll see the reagent tests for this ketone body only). It comprises only about 12% of your ketone bodies. Acetone is the ketone body that's excreted through your lungs. It's the one responsible for "ketone breath". Also, while in your blood stream, acetoacid acid and acetone can convert to each other, which is why the actual amount of acetoacetic acid might not be clear cut, because some it converts to acetone and is breathed out.

The other thing, which we don't have an FAQ about, is that the ketostix can register falsely: either falsely positive or falsely negative. A number of chemicals can do this, like alcohol (which is why you'll have some folks bragging that they're still in ketosis after a drinking binge. That's true, their stix are registering positive, but their stix are most likely registering the presence of the alcohol metabolite, acetaldehyde, than acetoacetic acid), iron, vitamin C, and some antibiotics. These "false" readings can be found in the tiny print of the manufacturers instructions on the "Chem 10" strips. Chem 10 strips are the strips used in hospitals and doctor's offices.

[G-Mom]

some of the mods managed to clarify some issues with Dr A before he died.

They talked to him personally? That's pretty cool.

[G-Mom]

Interesting stuff, not2late, but it still doesn't explain why we say there are no degrees of ketosis, when Dr. A says there are, unless I am too dumb to see the explanation in the science part.

The links don't explain it either, I guess I am looking for a clear cut explanation to why we say "there are no degrees."

[not2late]

Interesting stuff, not2late, but it still doesn't explain why we say there are no degrees of ketosis, when Dr. A says there are, unless I am too dumb to see the explanation in the science part.

The links don't explain it either, I guess I am looking for a clear cut explanation to why we say "there are no degrees."

It's true the reagent strips have "degrees". But here's the problem with the ketostix. All urine strips depend on the concentration of the urine. Urine concentration is determined by the amount of solute in the solvent (the urine). The solute are the chemical particles in urine like ketone bodies, glucose, protein etc.

To visual this, let's say you have 20 blue magnetic marbles and you put them into a 16 ounce container filled with water. You also have a metal rod. You stick the rod into the container and all the magnetic marbles stick to the rod.

Now I give you a 1 gallon container filled with 1 gallon of water. You toss in the same 20 magnetic marbles. Now you dip the metal rod into the 5 gallon container. Only 15 magnetic marbles stick to the rod.

Then I give you a 5 gallon container filled with 5 gallons of water. You dump in the 20 magnetic marbles, stick the rod in, and 10 marbles attach to it.

Finally, I bring you to an olympic sized pool. The 20 marbles are added to the water. You stick in your metal rod and no marbles attach to it.

In each case, you had 20 magnetic marbles, but the volume of the container increased, your metal rod picked up less marbles. In other words, as you diluted the solution with more water, your rod became less reliable in picking up the marbles.

That's the problem with the ketostips. Unlike the Chem 10 strips used by doctors, the ketostips don't tell you how hydrated you are. If the ketostrips had another reagent on there that indicates your hydration, the readings would be more meaningful.

So yes, the ketostix can be meaningful IF your urine concentration is the same everytime you test.

Anyhow, the since the ketostix don't distinguish if the ketone bodies are coming from dietary fat or fat from your body, they're pretty useless on their own, imo.



edited because some parts didn't make grammatical sense.

[G-Mom]

That is an excellent analogy, which makes me wonder just why in the heck didn't Dr. A mention the whole water issue? That makes the most sense to me why a person might get a weak pink or none at all and still be in ketosis. Very odd.

[MotherOfGizmo]

Also although it doesn't say exactly what you're asking there is a paragraph on page 138 in DANDR (paperback copy is what I have) where Dr. A says it is possible to be in ketosis w/o registering on the sticks, but if you are still losing weight and inches than you are still burning fat, you just may not produce enough ketones to register.

Also on page 143, last paragraph

Each persons metabolism is different and therefore will turn the strips a varying degree of purple.

IMO those are clues that you may turn the sticks dark purple, I may hardly turn them at all, and we may both be in the same degree of ketosis.

[Checkers]

In addition to the other physical sign listed in the other thread, I always get hot flashes when I 'm ketosis. I used to read that alot on the e-scribe board, but I don't see it mentioned here so far.