2000 Gals 2500 Guys

[TammyCat]

Originally Posted by sallyseachange

Because many of them simply don't lose weight that way. Many people have the following issues that hinder weight loss:

Candida
Medications they take
Faulty insulin response
Hormonal disturbances
Food sensitivities
Thyroid issues

These are all very real problems for a lot of us.

I'd suggest you talk in a less abrasive fashion if you wish to keep posting here at ADBB. We're all for discussion, when it's kept polite, but don't appreciate remarks that are patronising in tone.

Nothing you listed can effect BMR significantly. Also 65% of Americans are obese and most of them do not have the problems you claim. If they did losing weight would cure them.

Metabolism can only vary by 40 cals per day. That is reality!

If you can find any study that shows BMR can vary by more than 30 calories post a link. I'd like to see it. If you would like I can explain why BMRs cannot vary.

[Grant]

Originally Posted by TammyCat

Grant, why don't you just answer the question? I am right about metabolic rate so answer the question why won't women eat under 2000 and men eat under 2500?

It's pretty simple. Do I need to give you a course in metabolism 101?

Hmmmm. Well look, I can't accept the validity of your 2000/2500 magic weight loss number . So instead I'll interpret your question as "Why do men and women overeat" as I think that is essentially what you are asking.

On the one hand that is a very easy question to answer. Many people on this board have given their very personal stories explaining why they are overweight. Some, as Sally mentioned, didn't get that way by overeating but by very real physical problems. However, those that got overweight by overeating have given a number of reasons: eating for comfort, eating out of boredom, too lazy to cook healthy food etc. There are probably thousands of reasons. Personally, I got overweight because I just enjoyed food more then I cared about being fit. When I eventually got to the point where that wasn't true I was able, through Atkins, to do something about it.

On the other hand that is a very hard question to answer. I wonder how many millions of dollars and years of research have been spent to answer that very question? The issues are so complex you'd need at the very least a psychologist, a sociologist and an economist to give you a good answer. I am none of these things so I'm going to shut up now and leave it at that.

Baby finally fell asleep, so I'm going to hit the sack while I have a chance, have a good night!

[sallyseachange]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Grant again.

[woodym]

First, for the sake of accuracy, let's toss out this notion that 65% of Americans are obese. The most recent data I've seen says 63% of Americans are overweight, as defined by a BMI greater than 25 (like mine). The number drops to 31% over a BMI of 30, their cutoff for the category obese. reference Yup, the guy in my "after" picture in my signature below would have to lose 12 more pounds to not be considered part of that 63% "overweight Americans."

Volumes have been written on the subject of American weight. You have approached a self-selected group who have found the food management strategies suggested by Dr. Robert Atkins have worked for them. Many of us have very strong feelings about this, that he has vastly improved or even saved our lives. If you really want a thorough explanation of what Dr. Atkins thinks about the reasons for the epidemic of overweight, you will find no better source than his book Dr. Atkins' New Diet Revolution. His statements will undoubtedly be much clearer than whatever a smattering of part-time forum posters can cobble together a few minutes at a time.

I can restate his thesis in my words, and we could kick that around a little. But please don't make me fully restate the contents of a book that we normally assume is familiar territory to members of our community.

Here's my brief paraphrase of Atkins' thesis: Atkins believes that large numbers of us (Americans) who have grown up in the age of plenty, especially in the "low fat health craze" era, have over a lifetime consumed far more refined carbohydrate and sugar than at any other time in human history. This has caused our pancreas over its lifetime, to compensate by producing ever larger doses of insulin to cope with this new type of food intake. At some point, the cell receptor points for the insulin/sugar groups become overloaded and resistant. The cells already have more fuel than they ever wanted, and they resist. The pancreas secretes overlarge amounts of insulin and this will not change once we lose weight. The resulting rapid drop in blood sugar makes us hungry, and this is part of why you can't just say "don't eat, you've had your 2000 calories, so sorry," ... this ebb and flow of blood sugars wreaks havoc with the appetite. By managing our carbohydrate intake, we can manage this hyperinsulism. And yes, I think a large part of American obesity is due to exactly this hyperinsulinism.

Again, let me stress that you are asking a broad question to people who have had (or hope to have) life changing experiences regarding weight loss. We've seen this approach work where others have failed. That may or may not be your experience, or anyone else's.

As for the Chinese, for how long have they had an economy of plenty to match with the last 40 years of the US economy? One can wave the hand grandly and say these people eat rice and are slim, but a lot of detail gets washed away in that. Brown Rice or Frosted Flakes? Natural rice in its bran casing, or white stuff with the fiber milled off of it? And how much? Have there been limitless piles of rice available for all these years? And by the way, as times-of-plenty come to China, they are in fact getting fatter:

The incidence of obesity in China is increasing rapidly; currently one-fifth of the world's obese people are in China. Prevalence is still low compared with the West, but the rise in numbers of obese children is particularly worrying. Changes in the intake of animal sources and the reduced opportunity for and engagement with physical activity have contributed to the changes. There is an urgent need for public health initiatives to avert a health crisis.

reference

[SandyL2002]

I think American's are overweight because our foods are so processed with JUNK in them.. I know for a fact we are way too busy and do a lot of eating on the run. Now about the Metabolism..I don't know if I agree.. There is NO WAY I have the same Metabolism as my 15 year old daughter...she eats WAY more food then me and doesn't gain an ounce.


Moderators....I sure hope you don't let someone stay here too long that is so negative

[not2late]

I suggest that you read a book by Gary Taubes called Good Calories, Bad CAlories.

Also you might want to read Mary Enig's book,Know Your Fats.

Also 65% of Americans are obese and most of them do not have the problems you claim. If they did losing weight would cure them.

It's just not losing weight. As Grant mentioned there are real underlying medical problems with weight gain. Ask your physican brother and I'm sure he will tell you that people who are hypothyroid and are medicated properly will lose weight. He will also tell you that some diseases, like Celiac Disease, is vastly underdiagnosed because his fellow physicians fail to recognize the "soft" symptoms and don't do the appropriate testing. He will also tell you that certain medications for other illnesses can lead to weight gain.

So in addition to losing weight, there is also the question of eating appropriately for one's body. For example, if you are a diabetic and you eat a high sugar diet, you can expect your blood sugars to be high and your medication dosage to be high.

Additionally, "obese" per the BMI classification is BMI of 30 or more. "Over weight" is a BMI of 25 to 29.9.

Oh and the thing about the rural Chinese and their "high starch" diet....You might find this article of interest http://www.westonaprice.org/traditio..._in_china.html

[sallyseachange]

Originally Posted by TammyCat

Nothing you listed can effect BMR significantly. Also 65% of Americans are obese and most of them do not have the problems you claim. If they did losing weight would cure them.

Metabolism can only vary by 40 cals per day. That is reality!

If you can find any study that shows BMR can vary by more than 30 calories post a link. I'd like to see it. If you would like I can explain why BMRs cannot vary.

TammyCat...I think that Woodym and Megs (many tks to the two of you ) have given you far better answers than I could.

[TammyCat]

Originally Posted by Grant

Hmmmm. Well look, I can't accept the validity of your 2000/2500 magic weight loss number . So instead I'll interpret your question as "Why do men and women overeat" as I think that is essentially what you are asking.

On the one hand that is a very easy question to answer. Many people on this board have given their very personal stories explaining why they are overweight. Some, as Sally mentioned, didn't get that way by overeating but by very real physical problems. However, those that got overweight by overeating have given a number of reasons: eating for comfort, eating out of boredom, too lazy to cook healthy food etc. There are probably thousands of reasons. Personally, I got overweight because I just enjoyed food more then I cared about being fit. When I eventually got to the point where that wasn't true I was able, through Atkins, to do something about it.

On the other hand that is a very hard question to answer. I wonder how many millions of dollars and years of research have been spent to answer that very question? The issues are so complex you'd need at the very least a psychologist, a sociologist and an economist to give you a good answer. I am none of these things so I'm going to shut up now and leave it at that.

Baby finally fell asleep, so I'm going to hit the sack while I have a chance, have a good night!

Grant is it can't or won't accept those numbers? Maybe I can prove it to you. All of us require calories to stay alive and maintain a given weight. It is called conservation of mass. All human being have some things in common such as body temperature, respiration, heart action, digestion, ect.. All these processes require energy and the variance in humans is less tahn 40 calories per day. That is reality and you can look for data that disputes that but you will find none. For the past hundred years this has been studied using every method conceivable and the results are always the same. Slow metabolism is a pretty much a myth perpetrated by the diet industry. The varience between individulas is so slight is is not even worth mentioning.

I challenge anyone here to cite a study that shows BMR can vary by more than 40 caloroies among individuals regardless of their health status. BMR cahnges when weight changes. Large people have high BMRs and small people have low BMRs. That is reality. You may not like it but it is what it is.

65% of Americans are over weight because they eat too much. In 1970 only 4% of Americans are obese. The still had TV, cars, office jobs, and plenty of junk food but most of them reamined thin. I am not trying to make a point here I am just presenting the facts. I have made a conclusion regarding this fact set but I am more interested in the reaction of fat people to thoses facts.

What keeps ALL of the 65% fat is overeating. What keeps most of them overweight is their attitudes, lifestyle and beliefs. I reject the theory that carbs are the culprit although high glycemic foods in large amounts do play a minor role in some people. I avoid sweets and white flour simply because other foods are better for me. I get 70% of my calories from carbs, the rest come from protein anf fats.

[TammyCat]

Originally Posted by not2late

I suggest that you read a book by Gary Taubes called Good Calories, Bad CAlories.

Also you might want to read Mary Enig's book,Know Your Fats.



It's just not losing weight. As Grant mentioned there are real underlying medical problems with weight gain. Ask your physican brother and I'm sure he will tell you that people who are hypothyroid and are medicated properly will lose weight. He will also tell you that some diseases, like Celiac Disease, is vastly underdiagnosed because his fellow physicians fail to recognize the "soft" symptoms and don't do the appropriate testing. He will also tell you that certain medications for other illnesses can lead to weight gain.

So in addition to losing weight, there is also the question of eating appropriately for one's body. For example, if you are a diabetic and you eat a high sugar diet, you can expect your blood sugars to be high and your medication dosage to be high.

Additionally, "obese" per the BMI classification is BMI of 30 or more. "Over weight" is a BMI of 25 to 29.9.

Oh and the thing about the rural Chinese and their "high starch" diet....You might find this article of interest http://www.westonaprice.org/traditio..._in_china.html

Hypothyroidism does slow BMR but only slightly. Hypothyroidism is also easily diagnosed and cured so it is a non issue.

As to diabetes, there needs to be a differentiation. Type 1 is not self induced. Type 2 is. The treatment for type one is insulin. The cure for type two is weight loss. One does not have to eat saturated fats for 14 weeks to obtain that weight loss. Humans are designed by nature to eat mostly starches. If were were carnivores as the late Dr Atkins suggested then we would have teeth like a carnivore and a digestive system that would function properly on a diet high in meat.

Even Americans not on Atkins get too much protien. We need .5 grams per pound of body weight. Anymore just puts strain of the kidneys.

[woodym]

Please spare us the rhetorical gimmick that your arguments are merely 'facts' and not
carefully chosen to support your agenda. You clearly convey that it is your opinion that we are, or were, fat because of our lack of mental toughness. You must understand that by doing this you are tiptoeing on the edge of insult.

And even if true, so what? As a practical matter, the approach of "well stop eating so much" has been at best a dismal failure in countering the increase in overweight. Responses to the overweight problem since the 1960's more closely resemble your take than ours (Atkins'). We need practical answers, not lectures on the sin of gluttony.

As for your pet factoid that there is a but very small variance in BMR, I believe the burden of proof is on you to provide the 'study.' The fact is, these numbers are deduced from gas exhalation measurements and are built on many many assumptions. Reference There is no real standard for what sort of foods are to be eaten prior to the test, what a pulse rate should be, things like this. I would be surprised to find that the variance is what your say it is, and I look forward to your reference. As a practical matter, RMR or "resting metabolism rate" is what people usually really mean when they say BMR ... what we use up sitting around doing nothing all day. Strictly speaking BMR is a theoretical minimum required to sustain life, and again has little practical significance compared to RMR.